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Travis McKie

qcdeac said:
Don't know much about the stats you are using, but wouldn't it be logical to think that the guy who is #2 in minutes like Travis is, would be #2 in Win Shares?
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Not exactly. For instance, Madison is 5th in minutes played but 9th in Win Shares. Travis is also #2 on the team in Win Shares per 40 minutes (not including the walk-ons) at .150. He's behind Coron at .164 and ahead of Codi at .143.

Here is a good explanation of Win Shares. Travis' numbers suggest that despite using fewer offensive possessions he has still found other ways to contribute.
 
Wakegrad said:
Racerdeac and tbr said I shouldn't say Travis is terrible yet everyone is saying he should be benched. If you should be benched on the current Wake team, you have to be really terrible correct?
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What?
 
Refuse to utilize any statistical measure that references "win shares" when looking at a Buzz coached team. If there are no wins, how can there be win shares?
 
FckVwls said:
Moto could start for Cav on the backs of this effort. I can't see Moto/Cav/Devin all starting though. That'd be a disaster.
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Why? If Cav shoots threes, Moto slashes, and Devin rebounds and hits bunnies I think that plays into each of their games well.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Why? If Cav shoots threes, Moto slashes, and Devin rebounds and hits bunnies I think that plays into each of their games well.
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As I stated earlier in this thread, it wouldn't necessarily be a disaster for them all to be on the court at the same time. Or even to all play down the minutes down the stretch. Starting all 3, when they are the only 3 serviceable guys for the 4 and 5, seems disastrous. 6 minutes into the game they'd all be getting tired and there would be no one to put in.

It's much more efficient for them all to play a ton of minutes two at a time (i.e. Moto and Devin start, 4 min in Cav comes in for Moto, 8 min in rested Moto goes in for Devin, etc.)
 
RChildress107 said:
And yet Travis really hasn't digressed that much.

Here are his PER, Usage Rate, and Win Shares per 40 minutes (with team rank for each) over his career.

PER*: 20.3 (1); 20.3 (2); 20.6 (1); 16.6 (4)

USG*: 21.7% (4th); 25.8 (1); 22.1 (3); 17.6 (6)

WS: 2.7 (1); 3.1 (2); 3.6 (1); 1.8 (2)

* For PER and Usage I only included players averaging 10+ min. a game.

His PER has come down about 20% but so has his usage rate. And despite this drop off he is still second on the team in Win Shares, a decent indicator of an individual's contribution to team success.

But proceed to throw him under the bus
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0-3 shooting, 1 rb, 1 asst, 1 to, 1 blk. Clearly contributing like the stats say. Maybe the stats are saying the other teams are so focused on stopping our senior that it's opening up the game for everyone else.

Stat geeks posting stuff like this does not improve their credibility.
 
Deac83 said:
0-3 shooting, 1 rb, 1 asst, 1 to, 1 blk. Clearly contributing like the stats say. Maybe the stats are saying the other teams are so focused on stopping our senior that it's opening up the game for everyone else.

Stat geeks posting stuff like this does not improve their credibility.
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Using a small sample size does not improve yours.
 
Deac83 said:
0-3 shooting, 1 rb, 1 asst, 1 to, 1 blk. Clearly contributing like the stats say. Maybe the stats are saying the other teams are so focused on stopping our senior that it's opening up the game for everyone else.

Stat geeks posting stuff like this does not improve their credibility.
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Also LMAO over old guy who doesn't understand statistics using stats to back up his argument that stat geeks lack credibility
 
Deac83 said:
0-3 shooting, 1 rb, 1 asst, 1 to, 1 blk. Clearly contributing like the stats say. Maybe the stats are saying the other teams are so focused on stopping our senior that it's opening up the game for everyone else.

Stat geeks posting stuff like this does not improve their credibility.
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I haven't seen any opposing team try to take away McKie this year. Every team tries to play Wake straight up, zone us to death, double Devin in the post, or trap Codi near midcourt or off ball screens.
 
RChildress107 said:
Also LMAO over old guy who doesn't understand statistics using stats to back up his argument that stat geeks lack credibility
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the eye test though has shown, pretty clearly, that the dude barely tries. Its body language. His advanced stats appear to be not terrible because he doesn't turn the ball over anymore, but that goes along with him not trying to do anything on the basketball court. His usage rate is frickin 17% as our lone senior. That's pathetic. His Usage, PER and WS shouldn't have declined with a graduated CJ Harris.

You quoted MASSIVELY digressed stats to support a position that he hasn't digressed much. The only thing that changed was his teammates got worse. A 17% usage rate (meaning he uses less possessions than the average player on the court) as your Senior who was a stud freshman is ridiculous.
 
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Palma is pretty much correct. Per possession efficiency staying the same even though usage has dropped is a bad thing. The two are correlated (ie. 105 ORtg on 25% Usage is a much better offensive player than 110 ORtg on 15% Usage)

That said, current level Travis is still plenty good to start on this team and play a lot of minutes.
 
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FckVwls said:
Moto/Cav/Devin can all see 25-30 min per game without any of them playing any 3. Those are huge minutes for big guys.
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Right. I'm LOLing at the people suggesting Moto needs to play over Travis.

The reason Moto is playing so well is because he isn't playing the 3 spot. You want to take him away from the basket where he is effective?

If you want to bench Travis, the only option that makes any sense is to start Tree in his place. That might actually work as then Travis could provide scoring off the bench.

I think a benching of Travis to show him that effort matters might be a good thing, even if it means he subs in at the first media timeout.
 
Dino Gaudino said:
I haven't seen any opposing team try to take away McKie this year. Every team tries to play Wake straight up, zone us to death, double Devin in the post, or trap Codi near midcourt or off ball screens.
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Old guy sarcasm. :)
 
RChildress107 said:
Using a small sample size does not improve yours.
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Pull up my previous posts on Travis this year and you'll find a larger sample size, I'm not re-posting them. I took some heat for being down on Travis early but now, sadly the tide has changed in my favor.

Since the odd rumor is that Bzz and Travis are buddies now, hard to believe Bzz would limit Travis' shots. If he was shooting and missing that's one thing but for a senior who has been one of your top scorers for 3 years isn't taking shots that smacks of disinterest.

Besides the eye test many are using, the facts are he's averaging 7.3/gm and 1 rb/gm in 4 ACC games for a solid 6th in scoring on the team during the ACC season.

Only two guys on the team that are below their career averages (granted career average for sophmores are skewed but at the same time 'normally' you expect seniors to step it up) and that's Tree 1.7 vs. 2.0 and Travis 9.6 vs. 13.5. And he is the only returning player to be rebounding below his career average 4.4 vs. 6.8.

Bzz maybe an idiot but I doubt he's so stupid that he'd design game plans that would take your leading returning scorer and 2nd leading rebounder and try and make him less effective.

So crank up the advanced stats and tell me again that Travis is help more than hurting us.
 
palmab03 said:
the eye test though has shown, pretty clearly, that the dude barely tries. Its body language. His advanced stats appear to be not terrible because he doesn't turn the ball over anymore, but that goes along with him not trying to do anything on the basketball court. His usage rate is frickin 17% as our lone senior. That's pathetic. His Usage, PER and WS shouldn't have declined with a graduated CJ Harris.

You quoted MASSIVELY digressed stats to support a position that he hasn't digressed much. The only thing that changed was his teammates got worse. A 17% usage rate (meaning he uses less possessions than the average player on the court) as your Senior who was a stud freshman is ridiculous.
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I conceded they were down 20-25% and that he is probably only giving 75% effort night in and night out. It's not like his stats fell off a cliff. I think his lack of effort and digressed production was predictable and understandable for anyone who has watched this team over the past 3 seasons.

It seems like having a six page thread singling Travis out is over the top considering the other more glaring deficiencies this team has.
 
well you have no arguments from anyone on this board on a justification to his apathy, but that usage rate drop looks like dropping off a cliff to me, but its arguing semantics.

His winshares compared to teammates has stayed constant because he's barely ahead of our only gunner who can get his own shot and a fairly significantly underperforming compared to preseason expectations of devin.

but arguing with me is fairly silly, as I likely don't know what I'm talking about because I've only seen the team in very limited action this year. It just looked to me like he was very very low energy, and the usage stats confirm the very very limited eye test I have. It could be a teague/AFA thing of the dude's natural playing style appears relaxed, I don't know. But if not, I don't think a callout thread is unwarranted. [Redacted]'s light gentle prodding isn't lighting a fire under him.
 
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True or false, if sophomore Travis showed up the rest of the season, this team goes 500 in conference play and maybe wins an ACC tourney game.
 
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