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Tuition Forgiveness

even if he is, wgaf

the idea that getting a degree in these fields is a waste of time is fucking stupid

your major doesn't matter anymore (unless you're an accountant or pre-med) because it's the 21st century.

Not commenting about ChrisL - I’m trying to fully comprehend the conservative belief about liberal arts academic fields. Is it that they don’t believe *anyone* should focus on those fields of study, or that only economically self sufficient (wealthy) people should?
 
They expect more education. Boomers are the ones demanding entry level workers have bachelors degrees.

To be a teachers assistant in Guilford County, where the pay is $15/hour, you are required to have a college degree.
 
Why are you the way you are?
CLDS

I know you have a frothing at the mouth knee-jerk reaction every time I post anything but do you honestly believe I think that all loans are for somebody with a gender studies degree or an esoteric liberal arts degree? Even when I agree with you you're disagreeable.
 
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even if he is, wgaf

the idea that getting a degree in these fields is a waste of time is fucking stupid

your major doesn't matter anymore (unless you're an accountant or pre-med) because it's the 21st century.

I’m not sure I agree with that last statement.
 
even if he is, wgaf

the idea that getting a degree in these fields is a waste of time is fucking stupid

your major doesn't matter anymore (unless you're an accountant or pre-med) because it's the 21st century.

Your major doesn’t matter for pre med students. You have to take med school prerequisites (org chem, physics, etc) but you can major in whatever you want.
 
Your major doesn’t matter for pre med students. You have to take med school prerequisites (org chem, physics, etc) but you can major in whatever you want.


Yeah, I've known people who were humanities or liberal arts pre-med.
 
I'm very happy for my girlfriend, who took out Pell grants to pay for college over a decade ago.

I'm confused: she shouldn't have to pay back a Pell Grant. You simply submit your FAFSA every year and they determine how much aid you qualify for.
 
Student Debt Relief Versus the Scaremongers

Krugman piece.

On Wednesday, President Biden announced a plan to reduce most students’ debt by $10,000, with lower-income students eligible for twice that amount. The debt forgiveness was much less generous than many progressives wanted but more generous than many expected. Assuming it survives legal challenges, it will be a big deal for millions of Americans, although the overall economic impact will, as I’ll explain, be limited.

There are two big questions about this plan. First, will it, as critics claim, significantly increase inflation? The answer, if you do the math, is a clear no. Second, is it a good policy? The answer should be: Compared with what?

About the math: What you need to have is a sense of scale. If you’re worried about inflation, the relevant number here isn’t the eventual cost to taxpayers, which might be several hundred billion dollars. It is, rather, the effect on private spending. And I just don’t see any way to claim that this effect will be large.

Consider the fact that before the Covid pandemic — that is, before the government paused required payments on federally held student debt payments — total receipts from the federal loan program were about $70 billion a year. Since most student debt is in the form of large loans, much more than $10,000, these payments will be reduced by much less than that total. At most, then, we’re talking about tens of billions a year in a $25 trillion economy. That’s basically a rounding error.
Or if you prefer, compare this plan with 2021’s American Rescue Plan, which arguably did feed inflation. That plan, however, spent $1.9 trillion in a single year; the new Biden plan is unlikely to boost annual spending by even one-fortieth that amount.

I’m not alone in reaching this conclusion. A preliminary analysis by Goldman Sachs estimates that student loan payments will fall to 0.3 percent of personal income from 0.4 percent. This is supposed to feed the fires of inflation?

Wait, there’s more. The Biden plan also calls for an end to the pandemic pause in payments, which will suck considerably more cash out of the economy than debt relief will put back in.

So even the pessimists are talking about adding, at most, a small fraction of a percentage point to inflation — which seems high to me.

Add in the fact that the Federal Reserve, which (like me) was excessively complacent about inflation in 2021, is now hyperalert to inflation risks, and you realize that warnings that debt relief will be dangerously inflationary are bizarre — so bizarre that I can’t help suspecting that in many cases they’re coming from people who would rather take a cheap shot than lay out their real reasons for opposing this program.
But is it a good program?

The right is inveighing against debt relief on moral grounds. “If you take out a loan, you pay it back. Period,” tweeted the House Judiciary G.O.P. On which planet? America has had regularized bankruptcy procedures, which take debt off the books, since the 19th century; the idea has been to give individuals and businesses with crippling debts a second chance.

And many people have taken advantage of those procedures. For example, businesses owned by a real estate mogul named Donald Trump filed for bankruptcy on six occasions. During the pandemic, many business owners received government loans that were subsequently forgiven.

But, you may argue, student borrowers weren’t struggling to cope with a pandemic. True. But many student borrowers were suckered in by the misleading marketing of for-profit colleges; millions ran up debts but never received a degree. Millions more went into debt only to graduate into a labor market devastated by the global financial crisis, a market that took many years to recover.

So don’t think of this as a random giveaway. Many though not all of those who will benefit from debt forgiveness are, in fact, victims of circumstances beyond their control.

Will this debt relief give many of these victims a second chance? To some extent, at least. There’s solid evidence that freeing former students from overhanging debt makes it easier for them to move to better jobs and increases their income. And since higher income will mean more future tax revenue, the true fiscal cost of debt relief will probably be less than the numbers you’re hearing.

Still, there will be a fiscal cost. Is this the best way to spend that money?

As I said, the question is: Compared with what? Given the choice, I’d spend money on children rather than adults — and aid to families with children was, in fact, a big part of Biden’s original spending plans. But he couldn’t get those plans through Congress, while debt relief is something he can probably do through executive action.

And to Republicans whining that this plan does nothing for blue-collar Americans who didn’t go to college, a question: What are you proposing to do for such people — other than cut taxes on the rich and claim that the benefits will trickle down?

So you should ignore the inflation scaremongers, whose numbers don’t add up. And you should evaluate this plan in terms of political reality — in terms of what Biden can actually do. When you do that, it looks pretty good.
 
CLDS

I know you have a frothing at the mouth knee-jerk reaction every time I post anything but do you honestly believe I think that all loans are for somebody with a gender studies degree or an esoteric liberal arts degree? Even when I agree with you you're disagreeable.

hey i can take an L, man

L taken

ETA: (chris)L taken
 
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making these changes under an existing 2003 law which gives him the authority much more shrewd than an EO.
 
Following the logic of the ogboards self responsible pragmatists, liberal arts educations are a professionally useless privilege that should be reserved for the wealthy or only the most enterprising and confident 17 year olds #prohumanitate

The idea that learning liberal arts should cost 500k and can only be gained through college is what’s wild.
 
I hope PhDeac never borrows money from Tony Soprano.

Its interesting to see what Mitch Daniels has done to lower the costs of attending Purdue since he became President. Not sure I understand all the economics of why college costs have outpaced inflation but whats hes done is interesting to look at.
 
How come? Let's discourse BRO

I just think that there are tons of fields where a 2 or 4 year degree is the final goal and is directly applicable to the job you’re planning on pursuing.
 
The idea that learning liberal arts should cost 500k and can only be gained through college is what’s wild.

Straw men are fun, but face facts - your understanding or expectation of the true cost of a college education is based on 1. Your arbitrary personal valuation of its worth and 2. An expected institutional cost subsidization that simply isn’t happening anymore. You want the government to subsidize the institution directly, like they used to for previous generations, so the cost to the consumer is lower, but that subsidization isn’t happening anymore, so you complain about the real cost and blame Inflating costs on “unnecessary administration” or needless amenities, all the while the actual reason is that federal and state governments have stopped directly subsidizing the college system, and have shifted the real cost of a college education to the consumers -students now taking on the full cost themselves with financial aid and student loans.
 
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There was a short time period in American history, between WW1 and roughly 1975, where most Americans on the left and the right supported social goods, public benefits , labor solidarity - what happened was the Civil Rights Movement. Once Federal and State governments were forced to ensure those government provided social goods were equally accessible to Black people and other ethnic minorities, then we started to role all that shit back, and shift our preference to low tax private control and small “g” government. Same shit happened to the labor “solidarity” movement. All that shit came to an end during the Nixon/Reagan/Ford administrations as a response to the young anti-war activists and Black Civil Rights activists
 
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