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Wake-Vanderbilt GAME THREAD - 9/9/2023, 11am Allegacy Federal Credit Union Stadium - lightening delay

Complacent Deac said:
Is Chaney out?

Get Chaney, Hudson and Jones back and defense improves.

O line: Clapp out for how long?
Sharpe was carted off?

That's 2 starters.
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Chaney looks like a big dude on the sideline, be nice to get him back to have another player rotating at D-tackle. Sharpe’s injury didn’t look good.
 
WindyCityDeac said:
Well then I suppose i fundamentally disagree with our offensive philosophy. If the philosophy is potential NFL quality RB has to be able to pick up blitz for QB who will probably max out at college, then I don't understand the plan. I get it when RB's are close in ability/talent/projection. Blitz pickup is always important. But there was NOTICEABLE running ability difference between Ellison and Claiborne.

Find a way to make it work
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Again: the running is great, but what does it matter if he gets your QB hurt because he missed an assignment? What happens then? Now people load the box against you and it's no longer a free ride to 4-5 yards a clip. That is a serious part of the equation that gets lost a lot because more often than not there's more focus on the result than the process. The process is you can't run every single down against every team so you need to be able to do both run well and block well. If you can't do the second well, then it doesn't really matter how well you do the first part. All of a sudden it's 2nd and 8 at the 15, someone is about to flash open but Mitch can't hit them because Demond misses CJ Taylor coming in on a blitz. Now the play is dead instead of a free touchdown.

But it's not just Wake that does this, it's what football as a whole is moving to. Jahmyr Gibbs was the 12th pick in the draft, Jase McClellan (who certainly won't be the #12 pick this year) had 111 carries to Gibbs' 151. Ole Miss had Judkins and Zach Evans in a time share last year. Clemson does it with Shipley and Mafah. UGA had a time share with McIntosh and Edwards. Football is moving towards a committee approach at running back at the collegiate level for a similar reason to the NFL: the running aspect of it can be decently replaceable so you have to mix and match for the situation. Some might be better at pass blocking, some better as receivers. That's just what we're moving to as a whole.
 
CamLemons said:
Again: the running is great, but what does it matter if he gets your QB hurt because he missed an assignment? What happens then? Now people load the box against you and it's no longer a free ride to 4-5 yards a clip. That is a serious part of the equation that gets lost a lot because more often than not there's more focus on the result than the process. The process is you can't run every single down against every team so you need to be able to do both run well and block well. If you can't do the second well, then it doesn't really matter how well you do the first part. All of a sudden it's 2nd and 8 at the 15, someone is about to flash open but Mitch can't hit them because Demond misses CJ Taylor coming in on a blitz. Now the play is dead instead of a free touchdown.

But it's not just Wake that does this, it's what football as a whole is moving to. Jahmyr Gibbs was the 12th pick in the draft, Jase McClellan (who certainly won't be the #12 pick this year) had 111 carries to Gibbs' 151. Ole Miss had Judkins and Zach Evans in a time share last year. Clemson does it with Shipley and Mafah. UGA had a time share with McIntosh and Edwards. Football is moving towards a committee approach at running back at the collegiate level for a similar reason to the NFL: the running aspect of it can be decently replaceable so you have to mix and match for the situation. Some might be better at pass blocking, some better as receivers. That's just what we're moving to as a whole.
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Look if it’s a legit time share, I’m fine. Do I trust Clawson to do that vs Ellison being a real RB1? I do not

But I have football trust issues. And I do get the reasoning, I’ve defended at the NFL level why David Montgomery over Khalil Herbert for the Bears based on blitz pickup etc etc.
but in small sample size here it looks like a chasm, to me, between DC and JE as runners.
 
Seems like at Wake under Clawson virtually every year the best running back in terms of running ability is not the starter.
 
Also it seems Clawson gives running backs series not situational replacement so it’s not like he is rotating in backs for passing or 3rd down. This also means that if a running back is that bad at blitz pickup he wouldn’t warrant an entire series unless Clawson decides that series is fine for the quarterback to get hurt in. So neither of those theories makes sense so we are back to Claiborne >>> Ellison.
 
WindyCityDeac said:
Look if it’s a legit time share, I’m fine. Do I trust Clawson to do that vs Ellison being a real RB1? I do not

But I have football trust issues. And I do get the reasoning, I’ve defended at the NFL level why David Montgomery over Khalil Herbert for the Bears based on blitz pickup etc etc.
but in small sample size here it looks like a chasm, to me, between DC and JE as runners.
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But why wouldn't you? We have data that tells us it's a time share and has been for years. Even in the one game this season both of them played in, the snaps weren't really that far off from each other and Demond had more rushes than Ellison. Not being in a timeshare would be different than every year we've seen under Clawson
 
Louis Gossett Jr said:
Also it seems Clawson gives running backs series not situational replacement so it’s not like he is rotating in backs for passing or 3rd down. This also means that if a running back is that bad at blitz pickup he wouldn’t warrant an entire series unless Clawson decides that series is fine for the quarterback to get hurt in. So neither of those theories makes sense so we are back to Claiborne >>> Ellison.
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They don't switch at the downs because they don't want the defense to be allowed to rotate bodies in. That's a bigger + to them but it'd be disingenuous to think they aren't holding their breath when it's a third and long and they know Demond has to pick someone up. Sometimes you get away with it, other times you don't.
 
fwiw, “what happens if the qb gets hurt” is such a reductive argument it probably makes the case weaker.

obviously there are tons of factors and tradeoffs.

but clawson talks about how important being able to run the ball is consistently. post-game, he said we were able to have success running against light boxes and that we haven’t always been able to do so in the past.

it’s also possible that vandy was just really bad, and ellison would have equal success, although that is tough to believe based on the eye test.
 
yeah, you haven’t been paying attention if you don’t think we are going to rotate backs and leave them in for the whole series most of the time and don’t realize why those are no-brainers for how we run our offense.
 
I also think fans are making a bigger deal about this than the players. Claiborne put JE on his cleats yesterday to represent Ellison on the field - "Even though you’re not playing, we’re still doing this for you,” Claiborne said. “He’s the leader in our room. We’re a tight group and we love each other hard."
 
Loved watching Claiborne and Carney yesterday, and if Ellison is truly a better back, I look forward to us getting back to running the ball with authority all year.

I’m curious as to how Ellison got concussed in practice.
 
WhoTheDeac? said:
I also think fans are making a bigger deal about this than the players. Claiborne put JE on his cleats yesterday to represent Ellison on the field - "Even though you’re not playing, we’re still doing this for you,” Claiborne said. “He’s the leader in our room. We’re a tight group and we love each other hard."
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No matter what you think of skill levels, it's obvious being around them that the RBs follow Justice's lead. I was surprised he wasn't named a captain, tbh.
 
CamLemons said:
None of Claiborne not playing has been him not being able to run. He has gotta learn how to not get Mitch killed
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So Walker became a great blocker at MSU? He damn near won The Heisman. Put two backs in. Hartman can't run for shit. Why does he play? Isn't coaching maximizing what you have? Change the scheme. Adapt for strengths.
 
After watching Cam's instructive video on Elon's 7-8 defenders in the box, I understood why that's hard to run against. His equally instructive video showed how Vanderbilt's 5-6 defenders in the box is much easier to run against. In the discussion on the relative merits of our RBs, it's a shame we didn't get to see Ellison under similar circumstances. I suspect that Demond would've have still had his breakout performance but I suspect that Ellison would have had numbers similar to Tate's but our passing game might have been better.
 
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