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Partial Blame

deacsrus said:
We all know that it is a FACT that before a potential coach makes a commitment to a multi-million dollar contract which means uprooting his family and moving them hundreds or thousands of miles, the first thing he does before signing this life-changing document, is check the school's message boards and considers all the brilliant messages he reads so that he can truly make an informed decision whether to sign or not.
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No one has said any such thing. But let me ask you something. If you were about to take a big job, uprooting your family to go to a totally unfamiliar place and people told you that 25-150 public statements were made attacking your wife (who was already hesitant about moving), how would you feel?

If the choice was already 50.001 to 49.999, what would you think?

I'm not saying this was a defining moment, what I'm saying is doing so was moronic, childish, self-indulgent and could never be considered anything but ignorant.
 
I love that RJ is on the boards at 6 AM acting all RJish. It's like he doesn't even need to wake up, much less warm up. It's not an act. It's who he really is.
 
RJKarl said:
You mean the fact that I've said the way RW fired Dino was wrong is immaterial. Make no mistake, Dino deserved to be fired, but because he was a much better assistant than HC.

The fact is many of us have stated for years that the handling of the Dino debacle made it impossible to fire Bzdleik before the end of last year. But don't let little things like facts get in your way.

I know it's tough for you to understand, but it is very possible and likely to think RW handled the firing of Dino very poorly and the billboards/ads harmed our image. They aren't mutually exclusive.
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If the firing of Dino is a 10/10 in terms of harming our image, then the billboards/ads are a 0.000000000000000001/10
 
Dino's firing wasn't a ten out of ten. You have to take the combination of the way Dino was fired; add being to cheap to pay a reasonable requested price by Stevens; add the search debacle and the hiring of [Redacted].

Even when you do all of that it doesn't justify the adds/billboards. It doesn't change the fact that people around the country thought of those acts as childish and immaterial. They were totally useless and may have kept [Redacted] around an extra year due to RW's ego not wanting to be bruised.

They did no good and made Wake's fan base look bad.
 
RJKarl said:
Dino's firing wasn't a ten out of ten. You have to take the combination of the way Dino was fired; add being to cheap to pay a reasonable requested price by Stevens; add the search debacle and the hiring of [Redacted].

Even when you do all of that it doesn't justify the adds/billboards. It doesn't change the fact that people around the country thought of those acts as childish and immaterial. They were totally useless and may have kept [Redacted] around an extra year due to RW's ego not wanting to be bruised.

They did no good and made Wake's fan base look bad.
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You are just totally fucking wrong. Your opinion, that you try to pass off as fact, is 100% wrong.
 
Depends on how Wellman spins things. I see two options to answer the question of what happened with [Redacted] and the fans:

1) Oh this lunatic fringe never gave him a chance, not even when he had things going in the right direction. Jeff, being the incredible awesome person he is, chose to be the bigger man.

2) We have passionate fans. I knew that when I made a gut decision to go with Jeff. He didn't work out, and they called me on it. Just shows the passion and support there is for Wake Forest basketball.

I think we all know what tact Wellman likely took.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
You are just totally fucking wrong. Your opinion, that you try to pass off as fact, is 100% wrong.
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So are you saying that those who participated in the billboards and ads weren't portrayed as "yokels" and "lunatic fringe" in multiple media sources?

Because of this representation, RW had cover to keep the coach.
 
RJKarl said:
No one has said any such thing. But let me ask you something. If you were about to take a big job, uprooting your family to go to a totally unfamiliar place and people told you that 25-150 public statements were made attacking your wife (who was already hesitant about moving), how would you feel?

If the choice was already 50.001 to 49.999, what would you think?

I'm not saying this was a defining moment, what I'm saying is doing so was moronic, childish, self-indulgent and could never be considered anything but ignorant.
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If someone told me that, I would have to consider the source. As soon as I heard it was from one of the message boards, I would laugh it off as being irrelevant(which it is). Every hire at every school meets with some skepticism from some fans. Some more than others. I can't imagine that this would have any factor in making or changing a decision. I can't argue with your last statement.
 
RJKarl said:
So are you saying that those who participated in the billboards and ads weren't portrayed as "yokels" and "lunatic fringe" in multiple media sources?

Because of this representation, RW had cover to keep the coach.
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No he didn't.
 
RJKarl said:
So are you saying that those who participated in the billboards and ads weren't portrayed as "yokels" and "lunatic fringe" in multiple media sources?

Because of this representation, RW had cover to keep the coach.
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Find me one single media source that refers to them as "yokels."

Just one would be fine.
 
If I were to portion it out, I would say or problems attracting a coach is:

10% Dino Firing
10% perception of Wake being a job where one can win
20% WFU restrictions (recruiting, finances, and other program support)
55% Wellman's narrative post-Dino concerning an ex-coach who has friends in the coaching community and able to set the record straight
5% general malaise around the program (of which quad rolling, billboard, etc. are a large factor. But also lack of attendance, etc.)

I wasn't a fan of the billboards (I do think the ads had some merit to raise the issue to public consciousness, but not sure if they were an overall positive), and I do think it reflects poorly on the university, but they are way down the list of contributing factors to our current struggles.

The above is based purely on conjecture and speculation, but I do think the selling of the culture angle (which implicitly trashed Dino) is one of the biggest detriments to our program right now.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
You are all arguing with the man that was pushing for some form of "toilet display" as a demonstration against [Redacted]. Yes, we use that as a joke on these boards but it was a real thing and a real idea. This along with a push for other asinine things (tshirts I think) displays that RJ was not above the public call outs, the billboards, or anything else the fanbase did. Instead he is using revisionist history to paint himself as above it all, and paint those that were directly involved with the ideas as lunatic fringe that had severe consequence. Lets imagine in a hypothetical world that we used RJs ideas of demonstration against buzz, do you think that he takes the stance he has now?
 
rj is saying that without the ads and billboards wellman would have let [Redacted] go after last year?

holy cow
 
RJKarl said:
100-300 people should each find an old toilet, put it in their trunk and then put them out together at The Joel. That should get some national press......
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RJKarl said:
Once again you miss the point. The toilet idea was a jumping off point. It would have gotten and likely internet coverage. It would have been less threatening and more effective than doing nothing at that point.
You also forget my concept of starting with 10-20 BuzzOut T-Shirts at games and growing to hundreds by the end of the season.
If the petition was done properly, we'd have 2500-7500 signatures from all over the country.
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RJKarl said:
And if someone came up with another idea rather than the toilets then fine...no one even tried.

Petitions in and of themselves are often weak, but again you are missing the point Any one of the parts is weaker on its own. But when in a movement, the sums of the parts have more impact than the individual efforts would on their own.

The reality is everyone sat back, bitch and didn't come up with or implement anything else.

I understand I am a lightning rod, but I wasn't the only the person saying the decision had been made before the ads.
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RJKarl said:
I didn't my ball and go home. After the toilet idea failed, I offered the T-shirt idea and then the petition.

I kept throwing shit up to see if it stuck.
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Argument Over
 
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