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MTOW, Dan Searches for the Truth from Haas

Dan told DV7 that the staff did not blame the negativity. Dan got that from an anonomyous source.
 
Why would anyone go to a school where a large, and extremely vocal, portion of the fanbase has wanted the coach fired from the day he was hired, they have billboards and websites? And the stands are largely empty? A large reason you choose a college bball program is the head coach wanting that person to be there for your entire career. I don't see how Bzz can recruit anyone, frankly. And many of our fanbase readily admit they want us to fail just so RW will have to fire Bzz. It is truly a sad state of affairs. And so much of the anger from the beginning was this thought that Dino was a great coach and should never have been let go. Quite the contrary, Dino sucked as an HC, and guided us nowhere with 3 NBA players and a strong supporting cast. And he still has no HC job because every AD knows it. Had Dino been here another year or two, after he lost all of Skip's NBA level recruits, we still would have sucked royally. That isn't even debatable. Dino ran the program into the ground.

The point is that given where we are as a program and fanbase, there is no way I would come here as a recruit. Why would anybody? Watching the team play before 1000 fans in a quiet gym, and the billboard and the crazy over the top vitriol and wanting the team to lose is absolutely hurting our program, there can be no question about it. I don't think Buzz is the guy by any stretch, but I think he is at least average and has brought in some good players, but not being a great coach at this level is hurting our program, but so is the fanbase. If you aren't a part of the solution, you are part of the problem. We can debate the degree, but the negativity in the fanbase is absolutely hurting the program.
 
that article is the worst piece of "journalism" i cant even believe it was published. since when can you place blame on negativity yet give no reason in what you have written? the decision made for personal reasons does not translate to the negativity. awful article without anything to back up the accusation.
 
88Deac said:
Why would anyone go to a school where a large, and extremely vocal, portion of the fanbase has wanted the coach fired from the day he was hired, they have billboards and websites? And the stands are largely empty? A large reason you choose a college bball program is the head coach wanting that person to be there for your entire career. I don't see how Bzz can recruit anyone, frankly. And many of our fanbase readily admit they want us to fail just so RW will have to fire Bzz. It is truly a sad state of affairs. And so much of the anger from the beginning was this thought that Dino was a great coach and should never have been let go. Quite the contrary, Dino sucked as an HC, and guided us nowhere with 3 NBA players and a strong supporting cast. And he still has no HC job because every AD knows it. Had Dino been here another year or two, after he lost all of Skip's NBA level recruits, we still would have sucked royally. That isn't even debatable. Dino ran the program into the ground.

The point is that given where we are as a program and fanbase, there is no way I would come here as a recruit. Why would anybody? Watching the team play before 1000 fans in a quiet gym, and the billboard and the crazy over the top vitriol and wanting the team to lose is absolutely hurting our program, there can be no question about it. I don't think Buzz is the guy by any stretch, but I think he is at least average and has brought in some good players, but not being a great coach at this level is hurting our program, but so is the fanbase. If you aren't a part of the solution, you are part of the problem. We can debate the degree, but the negativity in the fanbase is absolutely hurting the program.
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This is quite possibly the worst post ever. He is a shitty coach who can't recruit. The negative fans realize we will go no where with buzz, and every year with him and his horrendous recruiting will only make it that much longer til we are "historically competitive".
 
88Deac said:
Why would anyone go to a school where a large, and extremely vocal, portion of the fanbase has wanted the coach fired from the day he was hired, they have billboards and websites? And the stands are largely empty? A large reason you choose a college bball program is the head coach wanting that person to be there for your entire career. I don't see how Bzz can recruit anyone, frankly. And many of our fanbase readily admit they want us to fail just so RW will have to fire Bzz. It is truly a sad state of affairs. And so much of the anger from the beginning was this thought that Dino was a great coach and should never have been let go. Quite the contrary, Dino sucked as an HC, and guided us nowhere with 3 NBA players and a strong supporting cast. And he still has no HC job because every AD knows it. Had Dino been here another year or two, after he lost all of Skip's NBA level recruits, we still would have sucked royally. That isn't even debatable. Dino ran the program into the ground.

The point is that given where we are as a program and fanbase, there is no way I would come here as a recruit. Why would anybody? Watching the team play before 1000 fans in a quiet gym, and the billboard and the crazy over the top vitriol and wanting the team to lose is absolutely hurting our program, there can be no question about it. I don't think Buzz is the guy by any stretch, but I think he is at least average and has brought in some good players, but not being a great coach at this level is hurting our program, but so is the fanbase. If you aren't a part of the solution, you are part of the problem. We can debate the degree, but the negativity in the fanbase is absolutely hurting the program.
Click to expand...

Cue the negrep onslaught
 
88Deac said:
not being a great coach at this level is hurting our program, but so is the fanbase. If you aren't a part of the solution, you are part of the problem. We can debate the degree, but the negativity in the fanbase is absolutely hurting the program.
Click to expand...

Treat the cause, not the symptom. There's no amount of sunshine and rainbows from the fans that would turn this disaster around.

Also, Dino was a bad head coach and needed to go, but LOL at saying he ran the program into the ground.
 
A) This kid flaking doesn't have to be evidence of how Bz double dips in community salsa or parks the wrong way on one-way streets or whatever. It could just be that a high school boy got caught up in his visit, and waited until the last second to chicken out. Bzz isn't the only person capable of screwing up. It looks to me like this kid screwed Wake Forest. It happens in football every year, but obviously the ratios are different.

B) Not that Wake fans should be seen and not heard or that they shouldn't raise their voices, but do you really think that opposing coaches (et al) aren't using the negativity against Wake in recruiting? Wouldn't you?

C) The punch line in all of this is Ron is going to win in the end. He's watered down the schedule to the point that anything short of 20 wins (an archaic pass-fail line these days) is almost impossible. Add in the recruiting class, ostensible (if artificially engineered) linear "progress" (unstated: from self-inflicted lows), and probably some marginal gains in attendance (which will have reported attendance in line with estimates from the Million Man March), and then he's going to be able to go to his bosses (assuming he actually has any) and say, "We did exactly what we promised. We built a competitive team the right way, without compromising our values. How can you fire us now? Have you heard about our academic standards? Also, Jimbo, Dook hoops and Dabo made us $20M this year, without us having to break a sweat. How great is this?" Say what you want about him, but the man knows the strength of his own pimp hand. Even he had to have had his doubts (there is no way in his most sour predictions that he contemplated the depths of our suckitude over the last three years) along the way, but it's time to face it: he's done it. He will retire on his own terms after his tenure with the NCAA and ride off into a very well-financed sunset. Ron Wellman is a first ballot "Doesn't Matter, Got Paid" Hall of Famer. That he will have left Wake basketball in the worst shape its been in during the last thirty years will be but a detail to Wake fans, who haven't mattered in a while.
 
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88Deac said:
Why would anyone go to a school where a large, and extremely vocal, portion of the fanbase has wanted the coach fired from the day he was hired, they have billboards and websites? And the stands are largely empty? A large reason you choose a college bball program is the head coach wanting that person to be there for your entire career. I don't see how Bzz can recruit anyone, frankly. And many of our fanbase readily admit they want us to fail just so RW will have to fire Bzz. It is truly a sad state of affairs. And so much of the anger from the beginning was this thought that Dino was a great coach and should never have been let go. Quite the contrary, Dino sucked as an HC, and guided us nowhere with 3 NBA players and a strong supporting cast. And he still has no HC job because every AD knows it. Had Dino been here another year or two, after he lost all of Skip's NBA level recruits, we still would have sucked royally. That isn't even debatable. Dino ran the program into the ground.

The point is that given where we are as a program and fanbase, there is no way I would come here as a recruit. Why would anybody? Watching the team play before 1000 fans in a quiet gym, and the billboard and the crazy over the top vitriol and wanting the team to lose is absolutely hurting our program, there can be no question about it. I don't think Buzz is the guy by any stretch, but I think he is at least average and has brought in some good players, but not being a great coach at this level is hurting our program, but so is the fanbase. If you aren't a part of the solution, you are part of the problem. We can debate the degree, but the negativity in the fanbase is absolutely hurting the program.
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1. Buzz should have never been hired. RW fired Dino and then botched hiring a good coach. It wasn't just the fans. Everyone in the media and other teams' fans scratched their heads on this one.
2. The stands are empty because we are a joke. We are still a "work in progress" in year 4.
3. Buzz has done a good job of failing on his own. I don't think fans' opinions were needed for his failures. He had already failed a lot before we hired him.
4. No one on here argues that Dino was a good coach. If anything, Ron Wellman was the one who made the mistake in overestimating his ability by hiring him, then extending him. Very few on here think any of that was a great idea.
5. If Dino sucked, then Buzz is the Linda Lovelace of sucking at basketball.
6. Dino doesn't have to coach because our dumbass AD gave him an extension a few months before firing him. And refer to the prior point that the fans weren't the ones that hired him, and extended him.
7. Buzz has not yet achieved "average" with us, but he no doubt will. And RW will probably extend him to a lifetime contract as he walks out the door to retirement. Fuck.
 
88Deac said:
Why would anyone go to a school where a large, and extremely vocal, portion of the fanbase has wanted the coach fired from the day he was hired, they have billboards and websites? And the stands are largely empty? A large reason you choose a college bball program is the head coach wanting that person to be there for your entire career. I don't see how Bzz can recruit anyone, frankly. And many of our fanbase readily admit they want us to fail just so RW will have to fire Bzz. It is truly a sad state of affairs. And so much of the anger from the beginning was this thought that Dino was a great coach and should never have been let go. Quite the contrary, Dino sucked as an HC, and guided us nowhere with 3 NBA players and a strong supporting cast. And he still has no HC job because every AD knows it. Had Dino been here another year or two, after he lost all of Skip's NBA level recruits, we still would have sucked royally. That isn't even debatable. Dino ran the program into the ground.

The point is that given where we are as a program and fanbase, there is no way I would come here as a recruit. Why would anybody? Watching the team play before 1000 fans in a quiet gym, and the billboard and the crazy over the top vitriol and wanting the team to lose is absolutely hurting our program, there can be no question about it. I don't think Buzz is the guy by any stretch, but I think he is at least average and has brought in some good players, but not being a great coach at this level is hurting our program, but so is the fanbase. If you aren't a part of the solution, you are part of the problem. We can debate the degree, but the negativity in the fanbase is absolutely hurting the program.
Click to expand...



I think Wake still offers a very attractive option for recruits; the school and athletic facilities are top-notch.

A rational recruit may conclude that they'd be reaping those rewards while playing for a new coach in '14 and beyond. Unfortunately, I fear they'll be learning the meaning of WF-disappointment early on in their lives.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
FIFY


I'm 100% buzzout, but people have to realize that from the outside, our program is starting to look like a circus. Hopefully, it leads to some decisions being made about Ron/Buzz/Grobe and not just more tarnish.
Click to expand...

This is kind of point of Bzzout. Eventually it has to get bad enough of that the BOT assesses the situation and makes some changes. They cant' fire the fan base, so hopefully they will clean house. The mere fact that it hasn't happened already is really probably due to Wellman being the Tournament Chair this coming year (and next?). That has been his lifeline. IT would put some major egg on our face to fire him in the midst of that role. If he is serving a two year term as the chair I am not sure what can be done. If Wake football loses out and wake basketball continues down the path that anyone with a basketball brain can see we are going (beat some bottom feeders and get trounced by real competition save the 1-3 upsets during conference play) then I don't see how wellman is kept.

Only the Lord knows I guess, but the kitchen is seriously warming up. Wellman needs Bz to save him, and that is a BADDD place to be if you are an AD.
 
88Deac said:
Why would anyone go to a school where a large, and extremely vocal, portion of the fanbase has wanted the coach fired from the day he was hired, they have billboards and websites? And the stands are largely empty? A large reason you choose a college bball program is the head coach wanting that person to be there for your entire career. I don't see how Bzz can recruit anyone, frankly. And many of our fanbase readily admit they want us to fail just so RW will have to fire Bzz. It is truly a sad state of affairs. And so much of the anger from the beginning was this thought that Dino was a great coach and should never have been let go. Quite the contrary, Dino sucked as an HC, and guided us nowhere with 3 NBA players and a strong supporting cast. And he still has no HC job because every AD knows it. Had Dino been here another year or two, after he lost all of Skip's NBA level recruits, we still would have sucked royally. That isn't even debatable. Dino ran the program into the ground.

The point is that given where we are as a program and fanbase, there is no way I would come here as a recruit. Why would anybody? Watching the team play before 1000 fans in a quiet gym, and the billboard and the crazy over the top vitriol and wanting the team to lose is absolutely hurting our program, there can be no question about it. I don't think Buzz is the guy by any stretch, but I think he is at least average and has brought in some good players, but not being a great coach at this level is hurting our program, but so is the fanbase. If you aren't a part of the solution, you are part of the problem. We can debate the degree, but the negativity in the fanbase is absolutely hurting the program.
Click to expand...

Nice cliche, but totally wrong. Our we part of the problem for Kansas Football since we have no intertest in it's solution. Are the Jayhawks saying "We'd win 11 games if only those Wake Forest fans were part of the solution". The problem is Wellman selling a sack of shit. The solution is replacing him. Another problem is a school president who doesn't realize the name on top of his pay check. I think he's waiting for the price of gold to drop so that he can gild Wait chapel. Wake is a mess.
 
klrdeac said:
that article is the worst piece of "journalism" i cant even believe it was published. since when can you place blame on negativity yet give no reason in what you have written? the decision made for personal reasons does not translate to the negativity. awful article without anything to back up the accusation.
Click to expand...

Try again, in English.
 
88Deac said:
Why would anyone go to a school where a large, and extremely vocal, portion of the fanbase has wanted the coach fired from the day he was hired, they have billboards and websites? And the stands are largely empty? A large reason you choose a college bball program is the head coach wanting that person to be there for your entire career. I don't see how Bzz can recruit anyone, frankly. And many of our fanbase readily admit they want us to fail just so RW will have to fire Bzz. It is truly a sad state of affairs. And so much of the anger from the beginning was this thought that Dino was a great coach and should never have been let go. Quite the contrary, Dino sucked as an HC, and guided us nowhere with 3 NBA players and a strong supporting cast. And he still has no HC job because every AD knows it. Had Dino been here another year or two, after he lost all of Skip's NBA level recruits, we still would have sucked royally. That isn't even debatable. Dino ran the program into the ground.

The point is that given where we are as a program and fanbase, there is no way I would come here as a recruit. Why would anybody? Watching the team play before 1000 fans in a quiet gym, and the billboard and the crazy over the top vitriol and wanting the team to lose is absolutely hurting our program, there can be no question about it. I don't think Buzz is the guy by any stretch, but I think he is at least average and has brought in some good players, but not being a great coach at this level is hurting our program, but so is the fanbase. If you aren't a part of the solution, you are part of the problem. We can debate the degree, but the negativity in the fanbase is absolutely hurting the program.
Click to expand...

You are so correct, and I don't think you know it. Your mistake is a misdiagnosis of the problem. If you have cancer you get rid of it, you starve it, you attack it. It may be a part of your body, but it is going to slowly (and sometimes quickly) kill you if you allow it to fester. Chemo sucks, surgery sucks and in the short term it is detrimental to the health of the patient, but it is the only way to become whole again. What you are suggesting is that we go on like we don't have a SERIOUS problem at head coach and act like the problem will take care of itself. I think Wellman has proven that he has no interest in curing the program, because to do so would be detrimental to his own legacy and potentially his own job.

Think of the negativity as chemo. I hate the firing of coaches. HATE IT. It is the worst part of the coaching profession. There is no stability because you have to perform every year. In this case the facts are the facts. Bz is a cancer to our program. He has failed every possible measurable there is. I don't need to recant these measurables, as everyone on these boards know it. The reality is that in year 4 we are still a completely flawed basketball team and program. There are major red flags everywhere you look and this Haas recruiting debacle is just another example in a long line of them.

Open your eyes. See the problem for what it is.
 
Can you imagine the negativity and outcry from literally any other fanbase if they had a coach performing like Buzz, and an Athletic Director acting like Wellman?
 
Ball State Deac said:
Dan told DV7 that the staff did not blame the negativity. Dan got that from an anonomyous source.
Click to expand...

Then where did the source get that from? Did they just make it up? Or did [Redacted] and Larue tell the "anonymous source" that negativity was a factor?
 
BeachBumDeac said:
Can you imagine the negativity and outcry from literally any other fanbase if they had a coach performing like Buzz, and an Athletic Director acting like Wellman?
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Actually no. I can't think of another "major" program that would let things get to this point. But we're just LOWF so we should be thankful and just sit back and whistle zippidy doo fucking dah.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
Can you imagine the negativity and outcry from literally any other fanbase if they had a coach performing like Buzz, and an Athletic Director acting like Wellman?
Click to expand...


That is the problem...anywhere else and it would be front page news. Fans would TOTALLY BOYCOTT the product. Hold public demonstrations. Be shouting "We Shall Overcome"...I could go on and on, but the message is certainly clear. The oligarchy which represents the Athletic Department needs to be sanitized completely with a strong Bleach...As TF and others mentioned earlier, there needs to be a scorched earth policy and start over!
 
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