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Last Play To Codi

MichDeac25 said:
The CP3 play was also two steps. The poster pointing out above that the hesitation makes it appear CMM took three steps is right. He hesitated with his dribble at the top of the key. He could still have dribbled from that point. He took two steps once he essentially forfeited his dribble right after that. I've never seen a bunch of fans bend over backwards more to show that our own player broke the rule when he won the game.
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REAL FANS BLINDLY IGNORE THE RULES OF THE GAME BECAUSE THEY BLEED OLD GOLD AND CULTURE, AMIRITE!
 
MichDeac25 said:
The CP3 play was also two steps. The poster pointing out above that the hesitation makes it appear CMM took three steps is right. He hesitated with his dribble at the top of the key. He could still have dribbled from that point. He took two steps once he essentially forfeited his dribble right after that. I've never seen a bunch of fans bend over backwards more to show that our own player broke the rule when he won the game.
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Codi established his pivot foot and then took two steps. He clearly traveled. As I said above it goes uncalled in a lot of games, but it's accurate to say he traveled because, well, he did.
 
qcdeac said:
Fuck State.

The most recent error occurred on Sunday at Wake Forest, when Referee Mike Wood ruled that a shot by North Carolina State's C. C. Harrison was a 3-pointer, giving the last-place Wolfpack a 60-59 overtime victory. Replays clearly showed that Harrison's foot was on the 3-point line when he launched his leaning jump shot, which banked in at the buzzer......The loss dropped the Demon Deacons, who were then ranked second nationally, to 20-3 over all, 9-3 in the A.C.C., and out of first place in the conference for the first time this season.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/18/sports/errors-cast-a-cloud-over-acc-referees.html
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qc digging deep into the archives. Nice work...
 
Definitely a walk. Definitely not gonna get called ever. Definitely State fans should be more upset that they let our point guard go coast to coast and shoot a layup. Fuck State.
 
What are you talking about? How could he establish his pivot foot if he's driving with the basketball? You establish your pivot foot when you are stopped with the ball.
 
MichDeac25 said:
What are you talking about? How could he establish his pivot foot if he's driving with the basketball? You establish your pivot foot when you are stopped with the ball.
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Looked like he dug in to cut when he picked up the ball. Maybe it wasn't technically a "pivot foot," but you get the point. Regardless of pivot foot or not, he took three steps. Not a big deal and I'm glad we won.
 
Dkin said:
qc digging deep into the archives. Nice work...
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Our generations "scoreboard game" in my opinion. Duncan's magical Sr. year seem to slowly unravel after that loss.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Looked like he dug in to cut when he picked up the ball. Maybe it wasn't technically a "pivot foot," but you get the point. Regardless of pivot foot or not, he took three steps. Not a big deal and I'm glad we won.
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You can still cut while dribbling the basketball. Again, until you reach a point where you could no longer legally dribble again without committing a carry or double dribble, you are an active dribbler. That point to me occurs virtually simultaneously to when his left foot hits the floor. Two steps and a layup.
 
Players should always do any "by the text book" rule breaking possible if the refs are unlikely to call it if it will help win games. The refs are rarely calling that walk, so it was a great play by Codi.
 
bmoneydeac said:
You can still cut while dribbling the basketball. Again, until you reach a point where you could no longer legally dribble again without committing a carry or double dribble, you are an active dribbler. That point to me occurs virtually simultaneously to when his left foot hits the floor. Two steps and a layup.
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This is not the rule. 2 steps without dribbling is a travel. You get 1.5 steps between dribbles.
 
The rulebook does not say 1.5 steps. Maybe it did when we were kids and that's what we were taught. But it's not the modern rule. If anything, two steps off a drive is the modern rule. What is a 1/2 step anyway? I take one step and the other leg is moving and almost hits the ground? The NBA has a number of rules on traveling but this is the most pertinent: "A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may use a two-count rhythm in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball."

The NCAA rules on traveling are pretty poorly written.

Section 72. Traveling
Art. 1. Traveling occurs when a player holding the ball moves a foot or both feet
in any direction in excess of prescribed limits described in this rule.
Art. 2. A player who catches the ball with both feet on the playing court may
pivot, using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other is the pivot foot.
Art. 3. A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and
establish a pivot foot as follows:
a. When both feet are off the playing court and the player lands:
1. Simultaneously on both feet, either may be the pivot foot;
2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch shall be the
pivot foot;
3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land
on both; neither foot can be the pivot foot.
b. When one foot is on the playing court:
1. That foot shall be the pivot foot when the other foot touches in a step;
2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both;
neither foot can then be the pivot foot.
Art. 4. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before
the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
 
Art. 3. A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and
establish a pivot foot as follows:
a. When both feet are off the playing court and the player lands:
1. Simultaneously on both feet, either may be the pivot foot;
2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch shall be the
pivot foot;
3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land
on both; neither foot can be the pivot foot.
b. When one foot is on the playing court:
1. That foot shall be the pivot foot when the other foot touches in a step;
2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both;
neither foot can then be the pivot foot.
Art. 4. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before
the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;

He established his left foot as a pivot foot after completing his dribble. He then lifted it off the ground and landed on it again.

Under the rulebook, that's a travel.
 
If you watch his feet after the last time the ball hits the ground it looks like a blatant travel, especially in slow motion.

If you watch the ball in real time it looks borderline, because from the moment he collects the ball for a shot he only takes 2 steps - he's just mid-dribble when he does that. The step where he's moving the ball from his left hand to his right is still a dribble as long as he's not palming the ball or turning it over. Once both hands are on the ball he just takes two steps.

As long as you don't palm the ball or turn it over, you could take 12 steps between dribbles.

You never see something that finicky called during a final possession - and definitely not when there's also a foul called. That was a great play and Codi deserves all the credit in the world. Also love seeing him take only 1 three pointer. Took it hard at the bucket all night and didn't give up.
 
I can't believe TheReff hasn't come on here yet to post something that makes absolutley no sense.
 
Another good example of "steps" not beginning until the player collects his dribble:

 
DCDeac said:
If you watch his feet after the last time the ball hits the ground it looks like a blatant travel, especially in slow motion.

If you watch the ball in real time it looks borderline, because from the moment he collects the ball for a shot he only takes 2 steps - he's just mid-dribble when he does that. The step where he's moving the ball from his left hand to his right is still a dribble as long as he's not palming the ball or turning it over. Once both hands are on the ball he just takes two steps.

As long as you don't palm the ball or turn it over, you could take 12 steps between dribbles.

You never see something that finicky called during a final possession - and definitely not when there's also a foul called. That was a great play and Codi deserves all the credit in the world. Also love seeing him take only 1 three pointer. Took it hard at the bucket all night and didn't give up.
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This. The issue is not when the ball touched the ground last. It's when he gathered it in, forfeiting his dribble. He could still have dribbled after the hesitation dribble. He couldn't have dribbled after he took the first step as it would have been a double dribble.

This is how quick players get up and down the court. Prosser used to talk about Ish getting up the court in about 4 dribbles. How is that possible? It's fluid. His legs are moving while the ball is in dribble rhythm.
 
If you slow down drives like that and slowly count steps, it almost always looks like the player took an extra step during the gather. Find a hoop and try to do a similar move and what CMM did will seem pretty natural.
 
There is no process of gathering, either you have ended your dribble or not. I think you can take 20 steps between dribbling as long as you don't "end your dribble" but only if the ball "is not in contact with your hand." The ball was in constant contact with Codi's hand. So the foot on the floor when the ball comes up the last time is the pivot foot. It can not leave the ground and come back down before the ball is released. Sure he could have dribbled, but he didn't, so that foot can't leave and come back down.

And that is not usually going to get called. And State should have not let CMM drive uncontested the length of the court.
 
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