• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

James Johnson getting paid

Wrangor, what's your take on Songaila's game? I think he was an extremely talented post player who found multiple ways to score with his back to the basket and going toward the basket despite having limited athleticism. Timmy had a great array of post moves and deceptively great athleticism. He didn't have the elite jumper and to the basket game he developed in the NBA.
 
PhDeac said:
Wrangor, what's your take on Songaila's game? I think he was an extremely talented post player who found multiple ways to score with his back to the basket and going toward the basket despite having limited athleticism. Timmy had a great array of post moves and deceptively great athleticism. He didn't have the elite jumper and to the basket game he developed in the NBA.
Click to expand...

I loved his game. He just isn't going to be a first ballot HOF PF/C like Duncan. Rogers was more of a SF/PF than a true post player, so if I were ranking our true post players of the past 30 years I would probably go with Duncan first (and WAYYYYY ahead of everyone), then Songaila, and almost immediately after him Eric Williams. Collins would have been better than both Songaila or Big E, but with only 2 years (and really only 1 year of playing significant minutes) that would be an unfair leap. We haven't had a lot of good post players to be honest. We have had a lot of space eaters. Songaila was there for my 4 years at Wake, and I played ball with him many times. He was incredible on offense, but he wasn't close to Duncan....not remotely. The only thing Songaila did better than Duncan was shoot free throws and hit knock down jumpers, and Duncan wasn't a terrible shooter by any stretch. He was quite effective even in college from 10-12 feet. Songaila probably had about 4-6 feet more range. But Duncan's post moves were more advanced, his natural offensive instinct was more advanced, and he was getting way more attention and putting up better numbers.

So in conclusion: Songaila - great Wake Forest PF. Duncan - most likely the best college PF of all time.
 
Wrangor said:
I loved his game. He just isn't going to be a first ballot HOF PF/C like Duncan. Rogers was more of a SF/PF than a true post player, so if I were ranking our true post players of the past 30 years I would probably go with Duncan first (and WAYYYYY ahead of everyone), then Songaila, and almost immediately after him Eric Williams. Collins would have been better than both Songaila or Big E, but with only 2 years (and really only 1 year of playing significant minutes) that would be an unfair leap. We haven't had a lot of good post players to be honest. We have had a lot of space eaters. Songaila was there for my 4 years at Wake, and I played ball with him many times. He was incredible on offense, but he wasn't close to Duncan....not remotely. The only thing Songaila did better than Duncan was shoot free throws and hit knock down jumpers, and Duncan wasn't a terrible shooter by any stretch. He was quite effective even in college from 10-12 feet. Songaila probably had about 4-6 feet more range. But Duncan's post moves were more advanced, his natural offensive instinct was more advanced, and he was getting way more attention and putting up better numbers.

So in conclusion: Songaila - great Wake Forest PF. Duncan - most likely the best college PF of all time.
Click to expand...

The only way this argument has any validity is if you compare their Freshman years. Even then, I'd expect 17 year old freshman Duncan would beat 20 year old freshman Songaila 1 on 1.
 
It's patently absurd to say Darius was a better offensive player at Wake than Tim was.
 
RJKarl said:
Rodney Rogers better than Tim offensively????? I haven't smoked pot in a while, but that has to be some GREAT pot. Hell, you must be able to look at it from across the room and get high for a week.

Hell, Tim even shot FTs at a higher percentage than Rodney - 69.6% vs. 69%. Tim shot better from two and had more assists/game.

Rodney was more athletic and a better 3pt shooter, but that's about it.

Tim had fifteen seasons when he averaged more ppg than Rodney's highest (they tied one other year).

I love Rodney and was disappointed with his intensity. On his side, he played for some shit show teams in Denver and LA.

Tim was unstoppable.

I can't even fathom how crazy and totally ignorant of basketball saying ", he was the most offensively talented big we had since Rogers. Yes, he was more offensively talented that Duncan." is.

This is right up there with "Ish Smith isn't an ACC level PG." And not understanding why if you double team someone on D that someone has to be open.

I can't imagine how stupid it is to say what PH did about Rodney vs. Tim offensively.
Click to expand...

Oh, bless your heart !
 
birdman said:
The only way this argument has any validity is if you compare their Freshman years. Even then, I'd expect 17 year old freshman Duncan would beat 20 year old freshman Songaila 1 on 1.
Click to expand...

#coolstoryhansel of the day. Literally my second day on campus I went over to Reynolds to shoot with a friend of mine (Hubie...RIP) and we ended up playing limo with Songaila for about 2 hours. Songaila was a pretty chill dude.
 
RJKarl said:
Rodney Rogers better than Tim offensively????? I haven't smoked pot in a while, but that has to be some GREAT pot. Hell, you must be able to look at it from across the room and get high for a week.

Hell, Tim even shot FTs at a higher percentage than Rodney - 69.6% vs. 69%. Tim shot better from two and had more assists/game.

Rodney was more athletic and a better 3pt shooter, but that's about it.

Tim had fifteen seasons when he averaged more ppg than Rodney's highest (they tied one other year).

I love Rodney and was disappointed with his intensity. On his side, he played for some shit show teams in Denver and LA.

Tim was unstoppable.

I can't even fathom how crazy and totally ignorant of basketball saying ", he was the most offensively talented big we had since Rogers. Yes, he was more offensively talented that Duncan." is.

This is right up there with "Ish Smith isn't an ACC level PG." And not understanding why if you double team someone on D that someone has to be open.

I can't imagine how stupid it is to say what PH did about Rodney vs. Tim offensively.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
Wrangor said:
#coolstoryhansel of the day. Literally my second day on campus I went over to Reynolds to shoot with a friend of mine (Hubie...RIP) and we ended up playing limo with Songaila for about 2 hours. Songaila was a pretty chill dude.
Click to expand...

God rest his soul. I still see his sister a fair bit.

I played NBA Jams with Duncan on our 2nd day of classes. So take that.
 
Both Rodney and Darius had more offensive polish than Tim coming into Wake. By the time they all left, Tim was clearly above them both and had been since his junior year.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Both Rodney and Darius had more offensive polish than Tim coming into Wake. By the time they all left, Tim was clearly above them both and had been since his junior year.
Click to expand...

Tim was the best player in the country during his soph year. Jerry West said Tim would have been the clear #1 pick after his soph year.
 
RJKarl said:
Tim was the best player in the country during his soph year. Jerry West said Tim would have been the clear #1 pick after his soph year.
Click to expand...

The latter is true. About the former, I don't remember who was playing that year or who won player of the year but I am not sure that is true. They don't necessarily go together.
 
scooter84 said:
The latter is true. About the former, I don't remember who was playing that year or who won player of the year but I am not sure that is true. They don't necessarily go together.
Click to expand...

Silly me. I defer player talent assessment to the greatest GM in the history of the NBA (he did it for more teams and over a longer period than Red, RC is the other person in the argument) over posters on an internet website.
 
RJKarl said:
Silly me. I defer player talent assessment to the greatest GM in the history of the NBA (he did it for more teams and over a longer period than Red, RC is the other person in the argument) over posters on an internet website.
Click to expand...

You truly have a problem with reading and logic. A GM saying that Tim would be the #1 pick (which he did say and which I believe was correct) is not the same as him saying Tim was the best player in the country - it means simply that it was obvious he had the most upside, the most potential, the most value to a selecting NBA team. There may have been college players playing at a higher level in the moment that year but people in the know could see that Tim would be better. Get it?
 
I get it and West was saying Tim was the best in college that year. GET IT???
 
See if you can find it on the other board. It was 22 years ago.
 
Not quite on topic but this thread has clearly been derailed anyway:

If fielding a 12 man roster based on college attended what would Wake's all time team be? What about its current team? Games are played by today's NBA rules.

For all time (admitting some recency bias): CP3, Teague, JHo, Rodney, Tim, Muggsy, Chill, Aminu, Songaila, Chappell, Johnson (Frank), Johnson (James).

For current: CP3, Teague, Aminu, Johnson, Tim, Ish, CHAUNDEAC, McKie?, Cavanaugh?, Collins, Crawford, JHo?
 
All - Time

Tim
CP3
Josh
Charlie Davis
Rodney
Chappell (before my time, but off the chart numbers)
Muggsy
Rod Griffin
Chill
Skip Brown
Dickie Hemric (before my time, but his numbers were absolutely insane.)
Frank Johnson

If I'm not mistaken, Hemric, CD and Chappell are within something like 1/10 of 1 ppg for career scoring average. I think it is about 25 ppg. None of them played with a three point shot. CD might have averaged 30 ppg with one.

RE: Current - you can't put Cav in. He was just OK as a Deac and left rather than competing. Also, it's a bit much to put Chaundeac in such a position.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top