2023 Masters Thread

[PhDeac]

It really is comical the lengths to which the LIV bros go to defend the LIV and to deflect any negative comments about either the golf or Saudi Arabia. I would respect them a lot more if they just owned LIV for what it is and admitted that they were fine with it. Just admit that it's about the money, and solely about the money. Instead it turns into a weird discussion about nonsense like the PGA being just as morally bankrupt or about how the LIV golf framework is actually superior to the PGA.

So they resort to both sides whataboutism? What a shock!

 

[guitardeac]

So LIV compensating players fairly gives their players an advantage. That makes sense.

Swing and whiff

 

[IAppreciateIt]

i don't like how the top golfers have split, but i don't really have a strong opinion on LIV itself. it's just that pretty much all of my least favorite golfers decided to join the tour. probably not a coincidence.

 

[Les Grossman]

If they want points, there is a clearly defined path for doing so and it doesn't happen overnight. The players were sold a bill of goods by 2 lying narcissists and expect to have their cake and eat it too.

Let’s not kid ourselves. LIV tour is not getting OWGR points no matter what they do.

Regardless, the Tour is better when there are guys like Brooks, DJ, Cam, Reed, Phil, etc competing in their events and majors. If there ever comes a day when LIV folds and they want to come back, I hope the Tour decides to bury the hatchet and let them come back and play.

 

[guitardeac]

Let’s not kid ourselves. LIV tour is not getting OWGR points no matter what they do.

Regardless, the Tour is better when there are guys like Brooks, DJ, Cam, Reed, Phil, etc competing in their events and majors. If there ever comes a day when LIV folds and they want to come back, I hope the Tour decides to bury the hatchet and let them come back and play.

The problem with that, among other things, is that is the absolute best case scenario for the LIV defectors. They would have sold their businesses and cashed in and then had their businesses given back to them for free. There would be an all-out mutiny among PGA Tour players. Won't happen. Can't happen.

 

[PhDeac]

The problem with that, among other things, is that is the absolute best case scenario for the LIV defectors. They would have sold their businesses and cashed in and then had their businesses given back to them for free. There would be an all-out mutiny among PGA Tour players. Won't happen. Can't happen.

Yeah. They're counting on the PGA Tour doing what's best for the fans and worse for the Tour. It sets a bad precedent to just let them back in. Another start-up tour could offer big money and plenty of players would take it knowing the Tour will eventually bend the knee.

 

[uncaboref]

Also the PGA having a designated event the week after the masters is so absurdly stupid. Let the biggest event of the year breathe a little bit.

Yeah, seems weird to make the Heritage a designated event, but I expect it to rotate off next year (along with the Waste Management Open), and give that status to another tour event to boost their field. I don't recall a field this strong ever competing there, even with McIlroy's WD (which now makes him ineligible for PIP bonus money since he has already skipped a designated event this year), so it is kind of cool if this is their plan to get some top guys to certain events that have never played there before.

 

[wfu22fan]

Yeah, seems weird to make the Heritage a designated event, but I expect it to rotate off next year (along with the Waste Management Open), and give that status to another tour event to boost their field. I don't recall a field this strong ever competing there, even with McIlroy's WD (which now makes him ineligible for PIP bonus money since he has already skipped a designated event this year), so it is kind of cool if this is their plan to get some top guys to certain events that have never played there before.

5 million is pocket change to Rory. He needed some rest.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

I wonder if they'll rotate to the Canadian Open next year since it's also an RBC sponsored event.

Like Morikawa and Tom Kim this week. Harbour Town is fun because it's such a horses for courses layout. Have to not only hit the fairway but put it in the right section or you may be blocked out by trees

 

[deacz]

Let’s not kid ourselves. LIV tour is not getting OWGR points no matter what they do.

Regardless, the Tour is better when there are guys like Brooks, DJ, Cam, Reed, Phil, etc competing in their events and majors. If there ever comes a day when LIV folds and they want to come back, I hope the Tour decides to bury the hatchet and let them come back and play.

Agree. And I expect two things:

1) Only a few players will ask to come back, for several reasons. I would bet on Brooks and DJ. First, most of LIV could never earn comparable money on the PGA Tour, as many are well on the downside of their careers. Sergio, CHIII, etc. are not coming back to the grind when they got paid the craziest retirement money of all time. Second, LIV will claw back plenty (if not all) of the money it paid to these guys if they go back to the PGA Tour. So, those who seek to return will need to be able to afford that payback, plus expect to earn serious $$$ in their remaining years on the PGA Tour.

2) The PGA Tour will institute some period of time where they have to wait. 6 months, etc. Maybe a fine too. This would make it somewhat penal and have the appearance of dissuading others from leaving.

But I think there is a high likelihood that LIV dissolves within the next few years anyway. It's just too bad of a product and the whispers of returns will only increase.

 

[DeaconCav06]

Yeah, seems weird to make the Heritage a designated event, but I expect it to rotate off next year (along with the Waste Management Open), and give that status to another tour event to boost their field. I don't recall a field this strong ever competing there, even with McIlroy's WD (which now makes him ineligible for PIP bonus money since he has already skipped a designated event this year), so it is kind of cool if this is their plan to get some top guys to certain events that have never played there before.

I assume that there is an exception for injury on the PIP bonus money. I’m not saying Rory is injured but it would be fairly draconian if there was no exception.

 

[CDeacMan]

I’m no expert by any means but seems pretty clear these LIV dudes just wanted a big bag that they felt the PGA tour wasn’t offering and intentionally keeping low (which has now been proven correct since purses went way up) even though they knew the new tour was ridiculous and stupid. Then they give lip service to it being great so as to not piss off the scumbags who gave them the bag. Then the idea is to play out the string until LIV falls apart because it’s a monumentally dumb idea. I think it’d be funny if LIV reconsidered the format and tried to make it more like PGA events (drop the teams and shotgun starts) and then certain guys subtly say they don’t think it’s a good idea because they’d prefer the LIV to just fail

 

[buckets]

pga tour and liv should swap cantlay for cameron smith

 

[WindyCityDeac]

If the reason Brooks went to LIV was concern over if he’d ever be able to play at a top level again, I have no issue with it. I get the idea of getting next level wealth when you are concerned about your ability to keep doing your job at a high level.

There is still the blood money thing, but again I’d be a hypocrite if i said that would be my number one concern. I mean I still go to restaurants and purchase products from companies I have issues with. I watched every second of that blood washed World Cup. It’s easy to say any one of us would turn down a bag from the Saudi’s but we all compromise our values in commerce every damn day…whether we know it or not.

 

[DCDeac]

Spieth saying post-Masters that he's played "WAY too much golf" as one of the reasons he couldn't stay focused, and now Rory dropping the Heritage (he potentially will lose "some" PIP money from last year, the penalty sounds vague and basically of zero consequence to Rory outside of it being a bad look as one of the architects of the designated event schedule) is definitely not great for the PGA Tour.

And say what you want about Phil's performance not being a result of LIV - everything he does in golf will be tied directly to LIV for the rest of his career. And he could certainly argue financial security, a light schedule, the opportunity to win due to being on a team even if he's playing like garbage could be beneficial to his focus and outlook moving forward. LIV is pretty ideal as a pre-Champion's Tour option for older players who want to cash in on their fame, play enough golf to stay sharp(ish), and focus on the majors for a few years. You just have to have no moral compass, or at least be amazing at equivocating.

 

[TheReff]

You like LIV bc they play on Trump’s courses. MAGAts support LIV as a general rule. LIV had 4 players in the top 40.

PGA guys ought to be happy LIV came around. Finally got stingy corporate PGA off their billions and raised their purses and put in special events with no cuts.
Nothing like a little competition for the PGA since they have effectively shut down the European Tour. And besides, 12 LIV made the Masters cut, with 3 being in the Top 4. Looks like they were ready for the competition. More so than Rory & JT. 😁

 

[ProbationDeac]

You like LIV bc they play on Trump’s courses. MAGAts support LIV as a general rule. LIV had 4 players in the top 40.

Yeah, there is definitely a MAGA element to LIV.

I'll agree with what's been said. I have no issue with players, who were honest that it was about the money (particularly Harold Varner). LIV's problem isn't getting their players to do well in a major (at this point), they have some talent. I don't know if that will continue but for now not an issue.

The issue is no one is watching or attending their events.

 

[Sirdeacsalot]

PGA>LIV

 

[liveanddiedeac]

If the reason Brooks went to LIV was concern over if he’d ever be able to play at a top level again, I have no issue with it. I get the idea of getting next level wealth when you are concerned about your ability to keep doing your job at a high level.

There is still the blood money thing, but again I’d be a hypocrite if i said that would be my number one concern. I mean I still go to restaurants and purchase products from companies I have issues with. I watched every second of that blood washed World Cup. It’s easy to say any one of us would turn down a bag from the Saudi’s but we all compromise our values in commerce every damn day…whether we know it or not.

I think that could be the case. He may have thought he was done as a top player and better cash in while he could. I don't think he'd go to LIV if he had it to do over. Now that he has won one of the 54 hole, shotgun start, exhibitions he's probably losing interest.

 

[Deacsfan27]

Yeah, there is definitely a MAGA element to LIV.

I'll agree with what's been said. I have no issue with players, who were honest that it was about the money (particularly Harold Varner). LIV's problem isn't getting their players to do well in a major (at this point), they have some talent. I don't know if that will continue but for now not an issue.

The issue is no one is watching or attending their events.

The Venn Diagram of MAGA and LIV supporters is a circle.