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any report on the luncheon today?

PhDeac said:
Hard to argue? I guess. Experience should matter. Yet we've had plenty of players who had better redshirt freshman years than senior years. Without even thinking about it too much, Skinner, Josh Harris, and Okoro come to mind.
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Josh Adams.
 
I'd agree with both Josh Harris and Josh Adams...not as much with skinner and Okoro who were greatly impacted by the caliber of players supporting them. But the ratio has to be 5:1 or 10:1 who were vastly better their senior years than in the first year they saw the field for Wake. We've pretty much named all of the majority of significant players who declined over time.
 
Dillon Fence said:
I'd agree with both Josh Harris and Josh Adams...not as much with skinner and Okoro who were greatly impacted by the caliber of players supporting them. But the ratio has to be 5:1 or 10:1 who were vastly better their senior years than in the first year they saw the field for Wake. We've pretty much named all of the majority of significant players who declined over time.
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Sure, but you're asking the wrong questions about redshirting. It's not if someone is a better player in their 5th year in the program than their 2nd year in the program. It's if they could have provided more value in their 1st year than their 5th or if they were a better player in their 5th year than their 4th.

I think Clawson has the right approach from what he's saying. You can't have a blanket policy. And Grobe didn't. He played a few players and until the last few years, the players he elected to play were typically the best players in the class. The problems with Grobe were first, there were probably a few more players who could have helped who were redshirted and second, recruiting just didn't get improve enough that true frosh were competitive with sophomores and juniors.

Playing all those true freshmen last year was a desperation move. That was Grobe's worst rated class. Did we really expect them to make a real difference? No.
 
PhDeac said:
Playing all those true freshmen last year was a desperation move. That was Grobe's worst rated class. Did we really expect them to make a real difference? No.
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It kind of reminds me of how [Redacted] recruits. Instead of thinking at all about future repercussions of making a really dumb shortsighted move (i.e. signing Rondale and Cornelius, for instance, or recruiting poorly and burning bad players' shirts in Grobe's case), these guys take the really dumb shortsighted moves...
 
To be clear, this board was highly supportive of yanking redshirts this year, in football. It was only when it didn't produce the extra wins that opinions changed. Shocking, no doubt.
 
Dillon Fence said:
To be clear, this board was highly supportive of yanking redshirts this year, in football. It was only when it didn't produce the extra wins that opinions changed. Shocking, no doubt.
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I'm not sure that this is entirely true. Folks were excited that Grobe was finally dropping the rigidity of his redshirting, but I don't think anyone was particularly thrilled about the quality of players whose shirts were being burned. When you burn the shirts off of players who could use the development and sit the players who could help AND lose badly for five years -- well, people will turn on you.

Again, dude was getting $2+ million dollars and got to walk off the job on his own terms (or, at the very least, was saved the embarrassment of getting fired). I don't exactly feel bad for the dude.
 
Dillon Fence said:
To be clear, this board was highly supportive of yanking redshirts this year, in football. It was only when it didn't produce the extra wins that opinions changed. Shocking, no doubt.
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"This board" is made up of a lot of different people with a lot of different opinions.
 
Not sure I can think of any/many players who should have had shirts pulled that were not, Strickland33. To be clear, I don't feel sorry for Grobe in the least though I find the vitriol directed to him absurd beyond belief. Regarding the board being a "melting pot" of different opinions, then why exactly are non majority opinions met with such distaste? To bring them in line with majority opinion, no doubt. And most of our football experts, a loosely used term, supported pulling shirts this year.
 
Grobe pulled shirts last year because he felt our late season swoons were do to a lack of depth. He said so in September. Pulling Orville shirt for 130 or yards rushing in 2011 was a real waste. I'm glad Bud and KJ will return this year for their fifth. I wish AJ was still around.
 
Dillon Fence said:
Not sure I can think of any/many players who should have had shirts pulled that were not, Strickland33. To be clear, I don't feel sorry for Grobe in the least though I find the vitriol directed to him absurd beyond belief. Regarding the board being a "melting pot" of different opinions, then why exactly are non majority opinions met with such distaste? To bring them in line with majority opinion, no doubt. And most of our football experts, a loosely used term, supported pulling shirts this year.
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This is the second time this week I have to explain that "melting pot" is an assimilation metaphor. I don't think that's at all what you meant to say.

I've been spouting "non-majority opinions" for a long time. People like to defend their viewpoint, especially against viewpoints that imply something is wrong. Recently you've said some just off the wall stuff that nobody will actually defend.

People who support shirts bought into the ravings of a desperate man. Hilariously so. Grobe's whole framework was based on experience. He's blamed youth many many times. Then all of a sudden, the answer is supposed to be youth? C'mon. They were desperate.
 
DEACS76 said:
Grobe pulled shirts last year because he felt our late season swoons were do to a lack of depth. He said so in September. Pulling Orville shirt for 130 or yards rushing in 2011 was a real waste. I'm glad Bud and KJ will return this year for their fifth. I wish AJ was still around.
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Agree with all that. Virtually all of our pulled shirts proved to be wasted. Unless Clawson starts bringing in top 50 classes, I hope the time we play true freshmen is few and far between and based on true need, and not because of a recruiting promise to draw a kid away from Nc State or UNC-C.
 
Dillon Fence said:
Agree with all that. Virtually all of our pulled shirts proved to be wasted. Unless Clawson starts bringing in top 50 classes, I hope the time we play true freshmen is few and far between and based on true need, and not because of a recruiting promise to draw a kid away from Nc State or UNC-C.
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The verbals from before Grobe retired were a class in the low 80s.

The verbals from after Grobe was hired were a Top 50 class.

I think the odds of Clawson bringing in a Top 50 2015 class are pretty high.
 
PhDeac said:
This is the second time this week I have to explain that "melting pot" is an assimilation metaphor. I don't think that's at all what you meant to say.

I've been spouting "non-majority opinions" for a long time. People like to defend their viewpoint, especially against viewpoints that imply something is wrong. Recently you've said some just off the wall stuff that nobody will actually defend.

People who support shirts bought into the ravings of a desperate man. Hilariously so. Grobe's whole framework was based on experience. He's blamed youth many many times. Then all of a sudden, the answer is supposed to be youth? C'mon. They were desperate.
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I agree completely that playing true frosh the last few years was a bad move. Never said otherwise. As was moving away from the cut block and misdirection offense over the past several years. I just wasn't ready to burn Grobe at the stake for it. But on this board, the only acceptable response is to declare Grobe an incompetent money grabbing fool for every season post 2007. I disagree.
 
Dillon Fence said:
I agree completely that playing true frosh the last few years was a bad move. Never said otherwise. As was moving away from the cut block and misdirection offense over the past several years. I just wasn't ready to burn Grobe at the stake for it. But on this board, the only acceptable response is to declare Grobe an incompetent money grabbing fool for every season post 2007. I disagree.
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That's not what people were saying. At all. Oversimplifying things to prove a point that nobody supports isn't really helping your case, dillon.
 
Strickland33 said:
That's not what people were saying. At all. Oversimplifying things to prove a point that nobody supports isn't really helping your case, dillon.
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Hardly an oversimplification. You read the post about seeing Grobe at Lowe's Foods? (The least funny thread in board history, FWIW). Or Lobo and MSU?
 
Dillon Fence said:
I agree completely that playing true frosh the last few years was a bad move. Never said otherwise. As was moving away from the cut block and misdirection offense over the past several years. I just wasn't ready to burn Grobe at the stake for it. But on this board, the only acceptable response is to declare Grobe an incompetent money grabbing fool for every season post 2007. I disagree.
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A pass happy spread offense fit Skinners talents. They brought Tanner in to fit that offense. It worked with a good OL and great WRs. LOBO switched to an offense that didn't work for anybody, and now he out on his ass.
 
I did not read through 5 pages of this thread but did he mention if practices will be open to the public? Although I loved that about Grobe I don't think it was the wisest decision.
 
GoDeacsGo said:
I did not read through 5 pages of this thread but did he mention if practices will be open to the public? Although I loved that about Grobe I don't think it was the wisest decision.
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I have heard that they will be.
 
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