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Billy Edwards is transferring?!?!?!

Fans calling for the backup QB when it’s a 5 star freshman is one thing (Cade Klubnik, Caleb Williams at Oklahoma). Doing it in Wake’s situation this year is quite another thing.

A decent chunk (not all) of Griffis’ issues are related to his inexperience, particularly in the need to make quick decisions when his OL is blocking like shit. Throwing a similarly talented and similarly inexperienced Kern out there instead of Griffis is pretty unlikely to fix anything in that regard.

I’m not saying that fans’ criticism of Griffis is out of line or wrong or whatever. I just think this team is more likely to get to 6 wins and a bowl game by hoping Griffis learns from mistakes eventually than by throwing Kern out there.
 
Apparently, Edwards was told he was not the back-up after the spring, after outperforming the competition on daily practice stats and the spring game. Anyone would have left.
This. Edwards, when given the opportunity, appeared to have outplayed his competition, but was told he was still 4th string. Given what we have seen at the QB position from Wake this year, it appears that Edwards was a better QB and the coaches made a mistake relegating him to 4th string.
 
How do we know this?

So, the WF coaching staff deliberately forced they 2nd best QB on the roster (behind Sam Hartman) to transfer?

Generally, coaches like to keep the best players on the roster, and promote the players that are outperforming the competition on a daily basis. So, Clawson and Ruggiero just decided on their own to rank the QBs from worst to best to fuck with QB room? Are we really trying to run with this narrative?

Just wonder if those that are buying into this have coached anything on any level? Even on the lowest level of sports, no coach would ever do this. Really not that hard; coaches wants to recruit the best players they can, and then, play those that give their team the best chance to win. Clawson and the staff would have to be insane to intentionally sabotage their careers and reputations by failing to play the best players or pushing the best players out of their program.
 
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My argument is that everyone thinking Kern is gonna magically be a better option is just classic wishful thinking/packpride fandom 101. I'll trust the coaches to make the correct call there when the time is right/if Mitch is totally broken but don't really expect Kern to peform any better 🤷‍♂️, and I fully believe Clawson also would have 100% had a proper QB battle if Edwards had stuck around and continued to show the promise he did in that meaningless end of a spring game.

It's insane to me the kinda narratives you love to spend your time constructing (with very little evidence) to denigrate the best football coach WFU has ever had, all while simultaneously masturbating furiously over duke's successes this season and saying they don't impact Wake Forest in any way. Head in the fucking sand.
You're losing it, man. I've called out your disingenuous argument and you keep making it. Nobody has confidence Kern can do the job. But most of us have no confidence Mitch can do the job based on a third of the season against the easiest competition. There are other QBs on the roster. Why not see what they can do instead of sticking with the guy who can't do it?

I have to call out the other contradictory nonsense here. Your whole anti-Kern narrative is based on a Spring Game in which you admit Edwards showed promise. You say the end was "meaningless" but also note Kern and all the QBs didn't have to take contact (which no shit). You also apparently weren't bothered that Griffis didn't look good either. So does the Spring Game matter or not?

Also you say you believe Clawson would have had a proper QB battle if Edwards stayed. So you don't believe there was a proper QB battle in 2022 that resulted in Edwards being 4th on the depth chart? Personally, I think there was a QB battle in 2022 for backup QB and Mitch won. That's why Clawson named him the starter when Hartman was announced out indefinitely.

Yet you think that's an insane narrative to denigrate Clawson.

You're WAY off here and I think you need to calm down and think before you post more weird nonsense.

By the way, I haven't posted about Duke football since the Clemson game. Do a search on your own board before weaving a weird narrative for your own benefit. You're isolating me like I'm the only one who thinks Griffis isn't getting the job done when your insistence that Mitch should still be the guy makes you an outlier.
 
How do we know this?

So, the WF coaching staff deliberately forced they 2nd best QB on the roster (behind Sam Hartman) to transfer?

Generally, coaches like to keep the best players on the roster, and promote the players that are outperforming the competition on a daily basis. So, Clawson and Ruggiero just decided on their own to rank the QBs from worst to best to fuck with QB room? Are we really trying to run with this narrative?

Just wonder if those that are buying into this have coached anything on any level? Even on the lowest level of sports, no coach would ever do this. Really not that hard; coaches wants to recruit the best players they can, and then, play those that give their team the best chance to win. Clawson and the staff would have to be insane to intentionally sabotage their careers and reputations by failing to play the best players or pushing the best players out of their program.
No one is saying that. We are saying that there were some incorrect evaluations in regard to the QB room. The coaches may have wrote off what Edwards did because he was playing against 3rd stringers in the spring game, and rather than saying there was going to be an open competition to be the backup, they said the depth chart is what it is. If Griffis is the best QB we have this season, then the coaches have done a terrible job of evaluating talent and were totally unprepared for Sam to leave.

There was no intentional misevaluation, but to have been set at the QB position for 5 years and not have a decent successor in place is pretty BS. It's not like we are rolling out new starters every year, this staff had time to find and develop a QB who could be successful when surrounded by elite WRs and they failed to do that.
 
You're losing it, man. I've called out your disingenuous argument and you keep making it. Nobody has confidence Kern can do the job. But most of us have no confidence Mitch can do the job based on a third of the season against the easiest competition. There are other QBs on the roster. Why not see what they can do instead of sticking with the guy who can't do it?

I have to call out the other contradictory nonsense here. Your whole anti-Kern narrative is based on a Spring Game in which you admit Edwards showed promise. You say the end was "meaningless" but also note Kern and all the QBs didn't have to take contact (which no shit). You also apparently weren't bothered that Griffis didn't look good either. So does the Spring Game matter or not?

Also you say you believe Clawson would have had a proper QB battle if Edwards stayed. So you don't believe there was a proper QB battle in 2022 that resulted in Edwards being 4th on the depth chart? Personally, I think there was a QB battle in 2022 for backup QB and Mitch won. That's why Clawson named him the starter when Hartman was announced out indefinitely.

Yet you think that's an insane narrative to denigrate Clawson.

You're WAY off here and I think you need to calm down and think before you post more weird nonsense.

By the way, I haven't posted about Duke football since the Clemson game. Do a search on your own board before weaving a weird narrative for your own benefit. You're isolating me like I'm the only one who thinks Griffis isn't getting the job done when your insistence that Mitch should still be the guy makes you an outlier.
There's nothing disengious at all about my argument, mr. "150 student classes are just as good as 15 person classes"

You are pedaling so much horse shit/giant leaps of logic in your narrative here. Let's try to correct some of those (I know, I should really just stop, it feels like I'm having a discussion with RJ right now).

The anti-Kern logic is based on the 2023 spring game which was extremely recent and most indicative of where Kern is now, Edwards showed promise in the 2022 spring game, they have literally nothing to do with eachother.

Having a proper QB battle for a second string QB in 2022 is not equivalent nor can be extrapolated whatsoever to what a QB battle in 2023 post-Sam would look like, as much as you keep trotting that out there like it means anything. We honestly have no idea what the fuck even the 2022 QB depth chart would have ultimately looked like because Edwards pussed out and left and ran up to join his brother at UMD. He could have played his way into the backup spot, he might have moved into third above Kern even. We. just. don't. know. Spring practices don't necessarily indicate anything when it comes to what things look like come Fall. Edwards just saw a crowded QB room, period, and decided to leave. It's a giant leap to assume the reason he left in 2022 was because Claws had promised Mitch the starting job a year and a half later (and beyond).

Re:
So does the Spring Game matter or not?

Yes, it fucking matters insomuch as you need to at least look GOOD in a spring game if you have any chance of looking good in a real game. It doesn't guarantee success obviously (see: MITCH). But if you can't at least impress there and even turn the ball over the exact same way we're lambasting Mitch for this year, then I'm skeptical you're gonna be faster and better come real game-time situations. Looking GOOD in a meaningless game is a starting point/bare minimum for whether you can be a good QB or not, looking BAD in that situation tells us a lot about your chances. There's absolutely nothing contradictory about that reasoning, I'd love to hear how you think that's the case.

The reason I bring up the duke thing is just because most WFU fans with any common sense knew it was absolutely terrible for us when they were gifted that win vs Clemson, and we were 100% right. Now we have to watch duke get fucking college game day and top 10 team hype while we're working through a rebuilding year. There's a reason Clawson seems on extra edge, because he knows it's bad for our brand. But I'm glad you got some joy out of that evening. I'm not weaving any narative, you said what you said then. I'm also not isolating you re: Mitch, I'm enaging witih lots of posters on that point, though you're the only one that decided to bring that discussion specifically over to THIS THREAD.
 
This. There was a ton of debate and lack of clarity around who would start when Mitch was chosen for VMI. Not to mention if anyone has watched Kern and Mitch in practice it was obvious who was the better QB.

Fans screaming for the backup QB is like the quintessential fan vs. coach hindsight argument. Fans never want to acknowledge that a QB can be both the best option at the position while also not playing well. Half the fanbase is still calling our backup Kerns and couldn't pick 2016 Kearns from 2023 Kern out of a lineup. So much overthinking going on mixed with things that only make sense if Clawson is a complete moron when it comes to winning football games. Which he is not.

These conspiracy narratives are so ridiculous.
DCDeacon nails it here, thinking Clawson named an heir apparent back in the spring of '22 and ran off Edwards as a result is 100% conspiracy theory bullshit and 100% just denigrating Clawson for the sake of denigrating him.
 
No one is saying that. We are saying that there were some incorrect evaluations in regard to the QB room. The coaches may have wrote off what Edwards did because he was playing against 3rd stringers in the spring game, and rather than saying there was going to be an open competition to be the backup, they said the depth chart is what it is. If Griffis is the best QB we have this season, then the coaches have done a terrible job of evaluating talent and were totally unprepared for Sam to leave.

There was no intentional misevaluation, but to have been set at the QB position for 5 years and not have a decent successor in place is pretty BS. It's not like we are rolling out new starters every year, this staff had time to find and develop a QB who could be successful when surrounded by elite WRs and they failed to do that.
I think you're really underselling how difficult it is to find and retain a high quality backup when you've got a guy who has played as long as Sam has with the job locked up. Especially so in this new mega conference $$$$ wild west NIL era where anyone can go play somewhere else instantly and get paid for doing it. Anyone good enough to be THAT good right away has a lot of reasons to leave for greener pastures in the in-between years, so really your best shot at a program like WFU is to have a promising freshman/rdshirt freshman ready to go and go through some learning curves. Which we don't seem to have this year afaik, and the coaching staff was hoping Mitch could be plug-in-pay AND more experience to dodge that, but he's 100% just not seeing the field the way he needs to atm.
 
"There's nothing disengious at all about my argument... [posts intentionally misleading incorrect quote to misrepresent my argument]"

I can't take you seriously when you continue to do this.

Duke getting Gameday would not matter to Wake if we were 4-0 going into Clemson after rolling through the weakest part of the schedule. I have enough confidence in the job Clawson has done to say that Duke getting Gameday still doesn't matter to Wake. The success of this program is all about getting the right coaches, players, and system in place to win.

I think you're really underselling how difficult it is to find and retain a high quality backup when you've got a guy who has played as long as Sam has with the job locked up. Especially so in this new mega conference $$$$ wild west NIL era where anyone can go play somewhere else instantly and get paid for doing it. Anyone good enough to be THAT good right away has a lot of reasons to leave for greener pastures in the in-between years, so really your best shot at a program like WFU is to have a promising freshman/rdshirt freshman ready to go and go through some learning curves. Which we don't seem to have this year afaik, and the coaching staff was hoping Mitch could be plug-in-pay AND more experience to dodge that, but he's 100% just not seeing the field the way he needs to atm.
The problem isn't retaining a high quality backup. The problem is the staff thought Mitch was a high quality back who could take over the position and he's not. Blaming NIL for this QB situation is complete nonsense.
 
"There's nothing disengious at all about my argument... [posts intentionally misleading incorrect quote to misrepresent my argument]"

I can't take you seriously when you continue to do this.

Duke getting Gameday would not matter to Wake if we were 4-0 going into Clemson after rolling through the weakest part of the schedule. I have enough confidence in the job Clawson has done to say that Duke getting Gameday still doesn't matter to Wake. The success of this program is all about getting the right coaches, players, and system in place to win.


The problem isn't retaining a high quality backup. The problem is the staff thought Mitch was a high quality back who could take over the position and he's not. Blaming NIL for this QB situation is complete nonsense.
Ok, don't address the questions answered and explain why you think I'm being contradictory (instead, focus on the shit on the side that's just there for a little extra spice). Now you've fully reached RJ territory 👏 👏 👏
 
I think you're really underselling how difficult it is to find and retain a high quality backup when you've got a guy who has played as long as Sam has with the job locked up. Especially so in this new mega conference $$$$ wild west NIL era where anyone can go play somewhere else instantly and get paid for doing it. Anyone good enough to be THAT good right away has a lot of reasons to leave for greener pastures in the in-between years, so really your best shot at a program like WFU is to have a promising freshman/rdshirt freshman ready to go and go through some learning curves. Which we don't seem to have this year afaik, and the coaching staff was hoping Mitch could be plug-in-pay AND more experience to dodge that, but he's 100% just not seeing the field the way he needs to atm.
If Edwards is the only P5 Quality QB that Clawson has been able to recruit since Hartman, then yes, we are in trouble when it comes to evaluating talent.

My guy, it's not like we have lost a ton of QBs to the portal either, we have a 4th year and 5th-year guy in the QB room. We have lost 1, that's it. It is tough to blame our current problems on attrition to the portal.

Also, look at this list https://247sports.com/season/2023-football/TransferPortalTop/?positionkey=57 and see how many of these guys are not starting at their new school. Our coaching staff had as much opportunity as anyone else to bring someone in to compete for the starting job, but they chose to stand pat. It's not like our staff doesn't use the Portal, they literally brought in a grad transfer to be the 3rd string TE one year, but for some reason didn't feel the need to look at any QBs to compete for an open job.

If this is who Griffis is and the staff believes that Kern isn't a better option, then our staff seriously misread the situation going into the season.
 
Ok, don't address the questions answered and explain why you think I'm being contradictory (instead, focus on the shit on the side that's just there for a little extra spice). Now you've fully reached RJ territory 👏 👏 👏
If you truly think I've "fully reached RJ territory," you can ban me too. But there's no consensus for that either, just like everything you're posting here.
 
"There's nothing disengious at all about my argument... [posts intentionally misleading incorrect quote to misrepresent my argument]"

I can't take you seriously when you continue to do this.

Duke getting Gameday would not matter to Wake if we were 4-0 going into Clemson after rolling through the weakest part of the schedule. I have enough confidence in the job Clawson has done to say that Duke getting Gameday still doesn't matter to Wake. The success of this program is all about getting the right coaches, players, and system in place to win.


The problem isn't retaining a high quality backup. The problem is the staff thought Mitch was a high quality back who could take over the position and he's not. Blaming NIL for this QB situation is complete nonsense.

Have to think that dook didn't get GameDay, rather nd got it two weeks in a row.
 
If Edwards is the only P5 Quality QB that Clawson has been able to recruit since Hartman, then yes, we are in trouble when it comes to evaluating talent.

My guy, it's not like we have lost a ton of QBs to the portal either, we have a 4th year and 5th-year guy in the QB room. We have lost 1, that's it. It is tough to blame our current problems on attrition to the portal.

Also, look at this list https://247sports.com/season/2023-football/TransferPortalTop/?positionkey=57 and see how many of these guys are not starting at their new school. Our coaching staff had as much opportunity as anyone else to bring someone in to compete for the starting job, but they chose to stand pat. It's not like our staff doesn't use the Portal, they literally brought in a grad transfer to be the 3rd string TE one year, but for some reason didn't feel the need to look at any QBs to compete for an open job.

If this is who Griffis is and the staff believes that Kern isn't a better option, then our staff seriously misread the situation going into the season.
Evaluating talent, or recruiting it? It's hard to sell a really good dude on coming in and sitting as backup for 3-4 years. There are very few programs who can do this successfully and you act like Wake is some outlier here.

The staff 100% misread the situation going into the season, they were far too rosy on Mitch, I've agreed with that a million times. I'm hopeful they'll attempt to fix the situation next year, but unfortunately we've just got to figure out it this season.
 
If you truly think I've "fully reached RJ territory," you can ban me too. But there's no consensus for that either, just like everything you're posting here.
My key point is that spring games matter in that you should probably look good at least in that if you're a good QB, and if you look bad in that you're probably not going to look good in actual games. And yet, that's "contradictory nonsense" to you. Anyone else could probably follow that reasoning pretty well, but not PH.
 
We don't know a lot about what's going on behind the scenes, in practice, etc. But one of the few things we do know is that the staff decided not to try and improve the QB room this offseason. Based on that, it's pretty much necessarily true that they believed Kern was a viable QB. If they didn't think Kern was playable, it makes no sense they wouldn't have at least tried to address that.

Griffis has not been a viable QB so far this year, so if they continue to trot him out it seems pretty certain it's because they believe he can improve a lot based on what they've seen in practices, not because they think Kern sucks.
 
Tobacco Road, you don’t think Edwards left because he thought he had a better chance at starting at Maryland than Wake?

You don’t think Clawson already chose Mitch as Hartman’s replacement a year ago?

You act like I’m making a singular point when Pilch and doofus have said the same thing before and after that post.
- ? I am not saying that. I am not sure why you are asking
  • I think we had a depth chart and guys knew where they are positioned. I don't think the depth chart is permanent. Guys can move up or down based on performance.
  • No, Pilch and doofus are saying something related, but different. They have made that clear and also clear that they disagree with what you are saying.

I love you, Ph, but this is your hill.
 
We don't know a lot about what's going on behind the scenes, in practice, etc. But one of the few things we do know is that the staff decided not to try and improve the QB room this offseason. Based on that, it's pretty much necessarily true that they believed Kern was a viable QB. If they didn't think Kern was playable, it makes no sense they wouldn't have at least tried to address that.

Griffis has not been a viable QB so far this year, so if they continue to trot him out it seems pretty certain it's because they believe he can improve a lot based on what they've seen in practices, not because they think Kern sucks.
We don't even know to what extent they tried to improve the QB room in the offseason did we? It's not like they're gonna come out and say if they tried to get a portal target and failed.. especially if it was just someone to try and improve competition at the second string spot.
 
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