Bobknightfan's Take on GT Game

[RChildress107]

I would refer to them as observations rather than accusations based on watching a significant amount of college basketball during my life. Also, scouts and recruiting analysts misevaluate players fairly often. The difference between a 5-star player and a top-60 4-star player is marginal quite frequently.

This is just so wrong. Go back and look at the Scout rankings from 2002 to 2010 (this year's seniors). A 5 star ranking was about 70-75% accurate for a high level of success at the college level, and about 55-60% indicative of playing in the NBA.

A top 60 4 star player on the other hand was about 30-40% indicative of a high level of success at the college level and maybe 15-20% indicative of making the NBA. I was pretty liberal with the top-60 guys too. My basic standard in looking through those was "have I heard of you".

A sample year (2006): The following 5 star players (out of 28) played in the NBA at some point: (* played less than 100 games)

Oden*, KD, Brandan Wright, Spencer Hawes, Ty Lawson, Thaddeus Young, Wayne Ellington, Chase Budinger, Darrell Arthur, Brook Lopez, Sherron Collins*, Daequan Cook, Javaris Crittenton, Gerald Henderson, Quincy Pondexter, Lance Thomas, Damion James*, Robin Lopez, Dajuan Summers*, Earl Clark, Derrick Character*, Mike Conley

That's 22/28 (78.5%) with 17 playing more than 100 games (60.7%).

In contrast here's the list of the next 32 guys who played in the NBA:

DJ Augustin, Hasheem Thabeet, Jerome Dyson*, Jerry Smith*, Jodie Meeks, Jarvis Varnado*, Marreese Speights, Patrick Beverly.

That's 8/32 (25%) with only 5 of 32 playing more than 15 games (16%).

5 star players have 5 stars for a reason.




*** While going through these names I discovered that after college Brian Zoubek started a bakery called Dream Puffz***


Edit: Oden has only played 87 games in his career. I knew it was bad but didn't know it was that bad. That makes me sad.

 

[WFU Lurker]

While certain people are trying to blame as much on Dino as possible, let me make the assertion that Dino had far more to do with developing Teague into a NBA player (not to mention Ish) than [Redacted] had to do with developing Burks into a NBA player. It's a hard one to argue against too.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

dino sucked but bzzz is way worse

 

[Strickland33]

meh - "The recruiting analysts are wrong"-idiocy has been debunked about 250 times already on this board and it always takes more time than it's worth. Good post, RChildress107.

 

[RChildress107]

meh - "The recruiting analysts are wrong"-idiocy has been debunked about 250 times already on this board and it always takes more time than it's worth. Good post, RChildress107.

Truth, but finding out Brian Zoubek started a bakery called Dream Puffz made it worth the effort.

 

[Dino Gaudino]

meh - "The recruiting analysts are wrong"-idiocy has been debunked about 250 times already on this board and it always takes more time than it's worth. Good post, RChildress107.

This is just so wrong. Go back and look at the Scout rankings from 2002 to 2010 (this year's seniors). A 5 star ranking was about 70-75% accurate for a high level of success at the college level, and about 55-60% indicative of playing in the NBA.

A top 60 4 star player on the other hand was about 30-40% indicative of a high level of success at the college level and maybe 15-20% indicative of making the NBA. I was pretty liberal with the top-60 guys too. My basic standard in looking through those was "have I heard of you".

A sample year (2006): The following 5 star players (out of 28) played in the NBA at some point: (* played less than 100 games)

Oden*, KD, Brandan Wright, Spencer Hawes, Ty Lawson, Thaddeus Young, Wayne Ellington, Chase Budinger, Darrell Arthur, Brook Lopez, Sherron Collins*, Daequan Cook, Javaris Crittenton, Gerald Henderson, Quincy Pondexter, Lance Thomas, Damion James*, Robin Lopez, Dajuan Summers*, Earl Clark, Derrick Character*, Mike Conley

That's 22/28 (78.5%) with 17 playing more than 100 games (60.7%).

In contrast here's the list of the next 32 guys who played in the NBA:

DJ Augustin, Hasheem Thabeet, Jerome Dyson*, Jerry Smith*, Jodie Meeks, Jarvis Varnado*, Marreese Speights, Patrick Beverly.

That's 8/32 (25%) with only 5 of 32 playing more than 15 games (16%).

5 star players have 5 stars for a reason.




*** While going through these names I discovered that after college Brian Zoubek started a bakery called Dream Puffz***


Edit: Oden has only played 87 games in his career. I knew it was bad but didn't know it was that bad. That makes me sad.

Truth, but finding out Brian Zoubek started a bakery called Dream Puffz made it worth the effort.

Fair enough, I'll drop it.

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

I wouldn't have cheered against my grandson...just as I would never have cheered against my son...on a personal basis...but I would have cheered for Coach Knight's team to win. There are no circumstances where I would ever cheer against a Bob Knight-coached team....no matter who it was playing. Everyone has to believe in something or someone. I believe in Bob Knight. Period. No qualifiers. That was a decision that I made many, many years ago.

Probably my all time favorite bkf post.

 

[DeaconCav06]

Here is my thinking on one and dones: I went to college to get a good job. Hell, I went to college so I could go to more school so I could get a job.

If I could have gotten my job after a year of college, I would have done it. What if one of our presidential scholars dropped out and founded a Facebook or Google. Would we be lamenting that fact?

 

[bigdoublezero]

I'm pretty sure that's not the issue people have with them. It's their impact on the #culture while they're at school -- the perception is they're more likely to act out, act like they're different and should be treated as such because they are and can, not go to class, etc.

Not saying I buy that culture warrior junk, but that's how they see it.

 

[qcdeac]

Here is my thinking on one and dones: I went to college to get a good job. Hell, I went to college so I could go to more school so I could get a job.

If I could have gotten my job after a year of college, I would have done it. What if one of our presidential scholars dropped out and founded a Facebook or Google. Would we be lamenting that fact?

Depends. Would that presidential scholar have any tattoos?

 

[ChrisL68]

Does bkf realize the irony of chastising others for pulling against their alma mater when he freely admits that he would pull against his own flesh and blood?

 

[RacerDeac]

Come on people seriously? A guy could be persuaded if he had better coaching? Then how come guys leave early often while playing for Coach K, Calipari, Self, etc.... Most guys will leave when given the advice that they will be 1st round picks. There is nothing more to it.

Keep that shit out of here. It doesn't support the narrative that Dino IS THE DEVIL!

 

[RacerDeac]

Does bkf realize the irony of chastising others for pulling against their alma mater when he freely admits that he would pull against his own flesh and blood?

DON'T YOU BELIEVE IN ANYTHING!??!

 

[ChrisL68]

I wouldn't have cheered against my grandson...just as I would never have cheered against my son...on a personal basis...but I would have cheered for Coach Knight's team to win. There are no circumstances where I would ever cheer against a Bob Knight-coached team....no matter who it was playing. Everyone has to believe in something or someone. I believe in Bob Knight. Period. No qualifiers. That was a decision that I made many, many years ago.

So Bobby Knight is in essence your god or higher power.

 

[SkinsNDeacs]

I'm pretty sure that's not the issue people have with them. It's their impact on the #culture while they're at school -- the perception is they're more likely to act out, act like they're different and should be treated as such because they are and can, not go to class, etc.

Not saying I buy that culture warrior junk, but that's how they see it.

I am sure that is what they say but I am not sure I buy it. Athletes being treated and acting different has little to do with one / two and done. I have said it before but my freshman year at App I lived in the "football dorm" (by pot luck). This was long before App football became what it is today...these guys had very little chance of going pro (although I did live next to Dexter Coakly). They were not your typical student even by App standards. They hardly went to class and the things I saw that year still make me shutter. For profit athletes are always going to be treated differently.

 

[deacvision7]

Somebody make a bobbyknightfan parody. STAT!

 

[RacerDeac]

Somebody make a bobbyknightfan parody. STAT!

How do you parody a parody?

 

[DCDeac]

I'm pretty sure that's not the issue people have with them. It's their impact on the #culture while they're at school -- the perception is they're more likely to act out, act like they're different and should be treated as such because they are and can, not go to class, etc.

Not saying I buy that culture warrior junk, but that's how they see it.

Wait, what?

I think far more Wake fans don't like the idea of 1 and dones because of the history of our program. How many 2 years or less guys have won postseason games for us? CP3, one of our best ever, would be the poster child with 3 NCAA wins in 2 years - then he left and we had no point guard and spent 2 years being bad. Teague and Johnson gave us 2 years and no NCAA tourney wins. Farouq gave us one then when he left we were a complete disaster again.

Skip may have gotten us into the mix with big names, but spending so much time chasing the Oden, Conley and Cook package for example was pretty detrimental to our program. Consider our 4 year guys - Duncan, Justin Gray, Eric Williams, Taron Downey, Levy, Dawson, Hicks, Songaila, etc... Those were the type of guys we had at the core of our 16 straight post-season appearances. Suddenly we've only been to the post-season twice in 7 years despite numerous 2-and-dones.

I think fans remember Wake as always in the hunt and always dangerous, and that was built on not relying on a Kentucky/UNC formula of getting 1 and dones routinely. It's like we've gone to two extremes though - Dino couldn't coach NBA talent to a postseason win over Cleveland State, and [Redacted] can't recruit guys who would sniff the league after 3 years. Neither have led to much of anything in the postseason.

Wake's best basketball has been played getting really good, but not quite NBA-elite players that stay in the program. With that as a base, hopefully you grab a hometown Chris Paul or another perfect fit rockstar recruit. I've always thought that was the general idea behind the anti one-and-done argument - although it's obviously been bastardized in the spin machine surrounding the current state of Wake basketball.

 

[ChrisL68]

Wake's best basketball was played with Tim Duncan who would have been the #1 player taken after his sophomore year whenever he left.

Since 1990, every Wake Sweet 16 team either had an early entrant, or Duncan, who was an anomaly.

The CP3 era was on track for at least two Sweet 16's before he punched Hodge in the nads and then the 2006 team was built to at least be an NCAA team.

I like that planning alot better than the "hope we get enough talent to get into the NIT" plan.

 

[tbird]

He surely is when it comes to anything involving the game of basketball. (And it's "Bob", please....not "Bobby".)

Damn BKF note you only have 718 posts and most everyone is taking shots at you! I just passed 900 and not getting that kind of attention. But I try to refrain from getting in the midst of controversy. But anyway "you da' man" with that much attention...