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Clemson @ WFU - Saturday 9/24 - 12 Noon ABC

As fans of the sport, we should want kids to have all options in front of them and all the resources they need to make the right decisions.

And as fans of our team, we want them to go through that process and choose our team.

I see Barnes like I saw the kid who decommitted and went to Oklahoma. He can do whatever he wants to do and we'll be fine.
 
deacon14 said:
1) Why? If you are thinking at all about the best interest of the recruits, it seems like they should be aware of every opportunity available to them. This sort of sentiment is that of a fan thinking only from the perspective of the team and not at all about the recruits.

2) Even if you could provide an answer to why it is justifiable to disallow conduct between other coaches and verbally committed players, good luck ever coming up with a mechanism to enforce that.
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No, not fan think at all. And you can have an outcome that benefits both the school and the student. College football, although quickly becoming player-centric, and contrary to popular belief, should NOT be all about the player. I have 3 kids, whom I love and would do anything for. however, they are taught, that the world does not revolve around them. they need to learn to contribute, to work hard, to keep their word, and to be honest. they are also taught to put others needs ahead of their own when possible.

your posed question #1, assumes that the right stance, has to be "the best interest of the recruit." I disagree, I say what is in the interest of everyone involved. . . ? IMO, this is becoming lost on many college basketball and football recruits today, but its probably the everyone's fault, because its what has been accepted as ok.

I am all for a kid wanting the best for himself, he should. but when you are holding out hope for an offer, and it doesn't come, and then you "commit" to another school, it should mean something; to the athlete, to the school, to the coaches, and to the future teammates, etc. If not, change the word, because committed is being used correctly.

to my earlier point, i am not complaining because a rule was broken, I am disappointed that this conduct is the norm. my reflection on society perhaps. still hopeful that he comes back, but not holding my breath.
 
BBDeac said:
Keep in mind we flipped Jesse Bates and Kenneth Walker from other schools right before signing day. Wake really isn’t anymore innocent than anyone else.
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I agree, and I stated in my original post that I am sure this process goes both ways. I am speaking to a larger point about this process, and my overall disappointment in it. that is all
 
I hear what you are saying. Unfortunately, that is not reality. I have had people at my company accept an offer, sign it, and then still go elsewhere.

Coach could get fired or leave tomorrow. Player could transfer next season.

We are competing with legit top-10 programs now for some recruits. To me, that is the bigger deal. The level of our recruiting is taking off. Think what we have done without 4-star guys. If we consistently get these guys now year-in and year-out, and you remove conference divisions, Clawson is going to get a ton out of them.
 
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The fair truth is that many Wake Forest players probably would have gone elsewhere had they gotten the big time offer they dreamed of. That’s life. As Clawson consistently builds the profile of our program we may start to become a more attractive destination for recruits, and we will start to recruit at the level where big programs poach our commits.
 
I have no problem with it. It's shitty that they offered right before we hosted the kid on a visit with them coming to town, and we had a chance to win that game and possibly lock up the commitment.
 
PaddyWF said:
I hear what you are saying. Unfortunately, that is not reality. I have had people at my company accept an offer, sign it, and then still go elsewhere.

Coach could get fired or leave tomorrow. Player could transfer next season.

We are competing with legit top-10 programs now for some recruits. To me, that is the bigger deal. The level of our recruiting is taking off. Think what we have done without 4-star guys. If we consistently get these guys now year-in and year-out, and you remove conference divisions, Clawson is going to get a ton out of them.
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Yeah. Wake is beating FSU and competing with Clemson and our recruiting isn't even in the same stratosphere as theirs. What starts happening if Wake starts getting more 4* players at different positions? How about if the next big time recruit from Forsyth County wants to stay at home and be the football version of CP3?
 
DEACONIOUSHOOZ said:
No, not fan think at all. And you can have an outcome that benefits both the school and the student. College football, although quickly becoming player-centric, and contrary to popular belief, should NOT be all about the player. I have 3 kids, whom I love and would do anything for. however, they are taught, that the world does not revolve around them. they need to learn to contribute, to work hard, to keep their word, and to be honest. they are also taught to put others needs ahead of their own when possible.

your posed question #1, assumes that the right stance, has to be "the best interest of the recruit." I disagree, I say what is in the interest of everyone involved. . . ? IMO, this is becoming lost on many college basketball and football recruits today, but its probably the everyone's fault, because its what has been accepted as ok.

I am all for a kid wanting the best for himself, he should. but when you are holding out hope for an offer, and it doesn't come, and then you "commit" to another school, it should mean something; to the athlete, to the school, to the coaches, and to the future teammates, etc. If not, change the word, because committed is being used correctly.

to my earlier point, i am not complaining because a rule was broken, I am disappointed that this conduct is the norm. my reflection on society perhaps. still hopeful that he comes back, but not holding my breath.
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Yeah, I hear all this, it's just very idealistic about the world, plus I don't think you've fully thought through the consequences of coaches not being allowed to contact verbally recruited players.

The best players would simply not verbally commit until the very end to hold out for the biggest NIL money. This would create a domino effect behind them of lower rated players, where coaches at the Alabama's and Clemson's of the world don't accept 3/4 star recruits until they know if they are going to land the 5 star kid at that position. Kids like Barnes wouldn't "officially" verbal commit to schools like Wake, they would simply tell the staff they want to come but will be playing out the process to see other options. Then on signing day, some bigger school may swoop in and Barnes may decide to sign there, leaving Wake without a recruit to fill the spot. To avoid this problem, Wake would keep some other kid on hold while waiting to see if Barnes commits, the same way Clemson would keep Barnes on hold, and this process would go all the way down to the FCS level of recruiting.

In practice, such an idea would be hugely detrimental to both the players and the schools, as the lead-up to national signing day would be utter chaos. The way things are currently constructed, if a kid isn't firmly committed and is maybe not going to sign his LOI, you usually get plenty of advance notice because you know that he is talking to other coaches, and you can develop back up plans to fill the roster spot.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
The fair truth is that many Wake Forest players probably would have gone elsewhere had they gotten the big time offer they dreamed of. That’s life. As Clawson consistently builds the profile of our program we may start to become a more attractive destination for recruits, and we will start to recruit at the level where big programs poach our commits.
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This. And the fair truth is also that Clawson probably would have taken other players if he thought they'd accept a Wake Forest offer. That's life.
 
Unfortunately that high-3* recruiting level is exactly where all the big time programs get their fall-back plan-B late offer commits from. The kids who go to the camps and do well but don’t get the offers until the blue chip options make their decisions
 
Deacfreak07 said:
I have no problem with it. It's shitty that they offered right before we hosted the kid on a visit with them coming to town, and we had a chance to win that game and possibly lock up the commitment.
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Seems doubtful to me that winning one game against Clemson would have been the difference for someone like Barnes, who has been wanting that Clemson offer for a long time.

I mean, his entire middle school and high school life has been watching Clemson compete for national championships, one loss to Wake doesn't flip that narrative.
 
On another topic, I wonder how team dynamics are between the guys that were recruited and committed as the staff's clear #1 option at a position vs a guy like Barnes, who very clearly was a back-up option/late-bloomer type for Clemson that was given an offer late in the cycle.

The players probably don't think much about it after they've been teammates for a while, but you gotta think it puts a chip on the shoulder of the kid who knows he is only on the team because some other player committed elsewhere.
 
If I'm Dabo, and my 66 Top 300 players just barely eeked out a win vs. LOWF and 0 Top 300 players, I'm probably taking a look at the 2022 WF committed recruits just to see whether I overlooked anyone else.
 
It’s hard to fathom that these coaches are game planning with one another for Army, running practices and film sessions with players, continuing to work with individual players to improve technique, handling media responsibilities (Claw anyway), maintaining a presence on social media to appeal to recruits, and in the midst of all that still have to be re-selling our recruits, recruiting new players, and studying other rosters/recruiting lists for players to poach.

No wonder these staffs are so huge and salaries so high.

Major family life sacrifices too, of course.
 
Doing workouts for other teams while committed to us, is a thing?

Can we bring in some 4 or 5 star guys, committed elsewhere, to do some workouts for us? Or is that already a thing?
 
Complacent Deac said:
Doing workouts for other teams while committed to us, is a thing?
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Sure, why not? A high schooler can attend any school's recruit camp he likes before signing his letter of intent.
Complacent Deac said:
Can we bring in some 4 or 5 star guys, committed elsewhere, to do some workouts for us? Or is that already a thing?
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Sure, if they were interested in doing so we could (and do).
 
Complacent Deac said:
I guess the question goes back to who has time for all that or DeacDaddy's post?

That's nuts on top of all the other demands.
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Well it's a lot more than just one coach doing it all. That's probably why the best head coaches are the ones that can find competent people to put around them, because they literally don't have the hours in the day to do it all.
 
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