Why was Dino fired?

[wfumike02]

I would say either Drew or Brad Brownell.

I've never heard anything even remotely suggesting Brownell was dirty. Is there something I'm missing?

 

[Deacsfan27]

I've never heard anything even remotely suggesting Brownell was dirty. Is there something I'm missing?

I have heard it in a couple of places, not necessarily from people "in the know". Just throwing out another name.

Maybe people can validate/deny his name being in the running, or of him being dirty.

 

[PhDeac]

This should just be auto-posted every time a Dino thread has the word "extension" in it. I'm not sure why people don't understand the concept. Even when it was issued everyone on the boards knew it had nothing to do with his longevity.

*edited out*? The bottom line is Dino fucked our team in the postseason every year, and that was reason enough. All other details, hard feelings, inclinations, mistakes, etc - at most they moved up his firing by a year.

There is no way Dino ever would have made it through this season. Zero chance. None whatsoever.

So Wellman is to blame for these culture-less Dino recruits because he gave him extension so he could recruit.

 

[tsywake]

Keep in mind that Jeff Battle was the first assistant offered the job (if I recall correctly). That was for a reason, and it may have been for several different ones. If Ron Wellman felt he didn't have time to get another coach, or he wanted to keep a coach from the staff, Dino Gaudio would have been the next most feasible option, even if he was not necessarily a very good one.

I could be completely off with this, but was Battle the coach who's wife was having some health problems at the time? I seem to recall something about it being offered to him, but he declined for that reason? Or am I thinking about something completely different?

 

[bmoneydeac]

pretty sure you are right tsy. didn't she pass away within a year or so of skip?

 

[GoDeacs07GM]

You are right, tsy. The whole "I heard so-and-so's" name is kind of futile, in my opinion. I'm sure (or I hope) our senior administrators at least threw all these guys' names around. We should have been discussing all of them. Whether or not they became serious contenders is another matter altogether - it's their job to figure their out. But everyone's probably right that these guys' names were mentioned.

By the way, the name I had heard within that week was Mike Anderson. I was incredibly excited. Who knows how much water that held, but it didn't happen. No point getting bothered about it now.

 

[PhDeac]

I'm sure Wellman's staff put together a good list of names.

Sadly, Wellman put together is own list.

 

[DCDeac]

So Wellman is to blame for these culture-less Dino recruits because he gave him extension so he could recruit.

Not following. The entire reason for Dino's promotion was to keep our recruits at the time.

A few years later with nothing to show for that strategy in the postseason and the direction changed to more coaching, less recruiting.

Wellman's job is to pick a guy and then give him every chance to succeed. The extension did just that. Dino didn't succeed, had plenty of time and talent to do so, and was fired.

Who are "all these culture-less recruits" you're referring to? I'd think our players would be pretty offended by you referring to them like that.

 

[DeaconSig]

Not following. The entire reason for Dino's promotion was to keep our recruits at the time.

A few years later with nothing to show for that strategy in the postseason and the direction changed to more coaching, less recruiting.

Wellman's job is to pick a guy and then give him every chance to succeed. The extension did just that. Dino didn't succeed, had plenty of time and talent to do so, and was fired.

Who are "all these culture-less recruits" you're referring to? I'd think our players would be pretty offended by you referring to them like that.

Coach Gaudio received an extension at the end of the 2009 season. He was fired at the end of the 2010 season.

 

[TuffaloDeac10]

Not following. The entire reason for Dino's promotion was to keep our recruits at the time.

A few years later with nothing to show for that strategy in the postseason and the direction changed to more coaching, less recruiting.

Wellman's job is to pick a guy and then give him every chance to succeed. The extension did just that. Dino didn't succeed, had plenty of time and talent to do so, and was fired.

Who are "all these culture-less recruits" you're referring to? I'd think our players would be pretty offended by you referring to them like that.

I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but the "culture-less" meme comes from Wellman belaboring the "culture change" this season. It's very Maoist.

 

[Deacsfan27]

Right, the fact that we are going after a "new culture" insinuates that the old culture we had was "bad".

 

[IamThunderbolt]

If he was the Asst that kept the levity up when other coaches were being the "bad cop" then I could easily see that being an issue. Such a change of gears for both the coach and the players.

I think this had a lot to do with it. I remember folks talking about Dino saying it was a transition for him to be more vocal and hard on the players and some of the players talking about this as well. Just as in parenting, I would think it's hard to establish yourself as friend first and then try to develop authority rather than establishing authority and exercising it in a manner that develops friendship (I think Skip did this well - he was and would always be "Coach" to his players, but they knew he was there for them).

 

[DCDeac]

Coach Gaudio received an extension at the end of the 2009 season. He was fired at the end of the 2010 season.

Everyone realizes this.

Ph is saying it's Wellman's fault that we have Dino-style recruits because he gave him an extension. The extension had nothing to do with it. Plus we have some great guys from Dino's classes, so I'm just wondering who specifically he's targeting as culture-less.

When Battle turned down the job after Skip died we should have gone after a big name immediately and just hoped the recruits would stay.

The [Redacted] hire backlash is Wellman paying for that mistake. Outside of landing Bob Knight or someone ridiculous, whatever coach was hired was going to lose a ton of games and suffer a huge amount of criticism. It would inevitably fall on Wellman.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

Everyone realizes this.

Ph is saying it's Wellman's fault that we have Dino-style recruits because he gave him an extension. The extension had nothing to do with it. Plus we have some great guys from Dino's classes, so I'm just wondering who specifically he's targeting as culture-less.

When Battle turned down the job after Skip died we should have gone after a big name immediately and just hoped the recruits would stay.

The [Redacted] hire backlash is Wellman paying for that mistake. Outside of landing Bob Knight or someone ridiculous, whatever coach was hired was going to lose a ton of games and suffer a huge amount of criticism. It would inevitably fall on Wellman.

I just don't think it was that feasible to go out and find a coach a month before school started, especially with the emotional aspects at play.

 

[PhDeac]

I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but the "culture-less" meme comes from Wellman belaboring the "culture change" this season. It's very Maoist.

Yeah. It's pretty disingenuous to give a guy an extension so he could recruit effectively then fire that guy (and only that guy) shortly thereafter in effort to improve the culture around the program.

 

[DCDeac]

Right, the fact that we are going after a "new culture" insinuates that the old culture we had was "bad".

Why is that exactly?

If we go to a 3-4 in football does that mean the 4-3 defense is "bad?"

Why does everything have to be so sinister? When did Wellman come out and condemn going after big-star guys as a strategy or call out our players as low-character? All I've heard is a judgment call that Wake is more likely to succeed building teams that stay together longer, that aren't dependent on huge talent signings, and that stress team play and unselfish basketball.

If he's wrong, in 2 years we'll suck and he'll be fired. As will [Redacted]. Why does it have to be some huge conspiracy?

 

[DCDeac]

Yeah. It's pretty disingenuous to give a guy an extension so he could recruit effectively then fire that guy (and only that guy) shortly thereafter in effort to improve the culture around the program.

So your argument is he shouldn't have given him the extension? That he should have hung him out to dry with ESPN announcing him "on the hot seat" and recruits wondering if he'd be around the next year, etc?

And that he should have taken that route despite not knowing at the time whether he'd be firing him after the next year or two?

Pure, perfect, hindsight. The problem I have with your posts like this Ph is that they're framed by this need to blame, second-guess, condescend, etc. Sometimes someone makes a decision, like the extension, that based on information at the time is perfectly reasonable. Just like promoting Dino. That turned out to be a huge mistake, but you can't blame the guy and act like Wellman was a moron for doing so just because you know what happened since that point.

(Note - This has nothing to do with [Redacted]. No hindsight involved there - plenty of people, myself included, didn't like that hire.)

 

[sailordeac]

the issue is not the style of recruits but the ability to handle them

 

[PhDeac]

So your argument is he shouldn't have given him the extension? That he should have hung him out to dry with ESPN announcing him "on the hot seat" and recruits wondering if he'd be around the next year, etc?

And that he should have taken that route despite not knowing at the time whether he'd be firing him after the next year or two?

Pure, perfect, hindsight. The problem I have with your posts like this Ph is that they're framed by this need to blame, second-guess, condescend, etc. Sometimes someone makes a decision, like the extension, that based on information at the time is perfectly reasonable. Just like promoting Dino. That turned out to be a huge mistake, but you can't blame the guy and act like Wellman was a moron for doing so just because you know what happened since that point.

(Note - This has nothing to do with [Redacted]. No hindsight involved there - plenty of people, myself included, didn't like that hire.)

What information did Wellman have about the culture of Wake basketball when Dino was fired that he didn't have when he gave Dino an extension? Culture doesn't happen in such a short time frame. It develops over time.

I just want Wellman to man up. Either drop the culture act or take responsibility for problems with the culture as the leader of Wake athletics. That's my argument.

And again, one of my favorite things on the board is when people use the hindsight argument to say things like "you can't blame the guy and act like Wellman was a moron for doing so just because you know what happened since that point" to argue with people who disagreed with the original decision in the first place. You even say that yourself with regard to the [Redacted] hire.

You can't use your argument against me because:
1. I didn't think Dino should be our head coach in the first place.
2. At the most, given the situation he should have been a one year interim head coach while we did a search to find another coach.
3. I definitely was against the extension and any coaching maneuver made purely for recruiting purposes.

Instead of criticizing me, you should be lauding me for being on top of this from the beginning. There was no hindsight involved in my take on Dino's hire and tenure at Wake.

 

[TBR]

The culture stuff is a smoke screen.