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Aaron Judge - New HR Champ

BarcaDeac said:
again, this is Duke/Carolina fan talk
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Dude’s talking up how knowledgeable Yankee fans are and then responding to any and all posts with “tittles, you hate us cuz you ain’t us”. I’d hate to see what non-knowledgeable fans would say.
 
Well, Judge will win MVP pretty easily. That probably will be a good indication of who deserved it.
 
Judge certainly has an argument, and Yankee bias will almost certainly result in him winning the MVP but if you want to talk player value......

"So it’s probably best to study Ohtani as the two players he encompasses. As a hitter, if you throw out his 2020 (and you should always throw out 2020 when evaluating a player or team), he has a career 138 wRC+ as a hitter over three and a half seasons. That puts him right at Freddie Freeman’s level, and next to Pete Alonso as well. It also slots him slightly above Mookie Betts (if you’re thinking this means all roads lead to Ohtani becoming a Dodger, well, you’re probably not wrong). Freeman just signed for an average of $27 million a year, and Betts is at $30 million a year on average. Both provide a fair amount of defensive value for those deals (again, we’re just studying Ohtani as a hitter right now), Betts more than Freeman. But purely as a hitter, Ohtani can easily claim to be worth $25 million a year and probably $30 mildo. That’s just as a hitter.

As a pitcher, Ohtani is a little tougher study. There’s just only about a season and a half to look at, as he missed a whole season as a pitcher thanks to Tommy John surgery. There’s only 49 starts over basically three seasons, and that’s going to be a big red flag for any other team when he’s pitched as two players in one. Still, Ohtani’s 2.43 FIP would be good for fourth in MLB if he had enough innings to qualify (that “if” is going to be a major player here). His 2.6 fWAR would be good for 10th. Were he to carry this out for the whole season, he would have a season as good or better than the ones Kevin Gausman or Robbie Ray had last year, which got them deals worth $22M and $23M respectively this past winter. Both are also older than Ohtani will be when he’s a free agent. Carlos Rodon, who through injury only made 24 starts last year and popped out of nowhere, which is about the same amount of starts Ohtani will end up with, got $22 million for two years as well."

the fact that he just went through a season where he will finish in the CY Young voting bolsters his pitching value.
 
Frosty said:
It's not a matter of hating the Yankees. I'm a Mets homer. I'll own that. I think folks are giving you a hard time because the defense has been "27 rings" and "you guys just hate the Yankees". There's a case to be made for Judge as MVP. I happen to think that Ohtani's season is more impressive, but Judge is going to win AL MVP and probably run away with it in the voting.

Honest question, if Judge was on the Angels and Ohtani was on the Yankees and we hold everything else equal (their respective numbers and each team's W-L) are you still giving the AL MVP to Judge?
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well, IMO, if Ohtani was on a team with a winning record it would go a long way. Ohtani also has arguably one of the best players in the league also on his team in Mike Trout, but they 33 games out of first (15 games under 500) in the AL West.
 
Ohtani may very well be the most talented baseball player in baseball history. But the award isn't for the Most Talented Player, it is the Most Valuable Player. It makes zero sense how a player on a team that finished 15 games below .500 can be considered even close to the most valuable player.

Based on popular interpretation of how these awards should go, the MLB MVP awards should be renamed the Heisman Trophies and the Heisman should be renamed the NCAA MVP.
 
warak said:
well, IMO, if Ohtani was on a team with a winning record it would go a long way. Ohtani also has arguably one of the best players in the league also on his team in Mike Trout, but they 33 games out of first (15 games under 500) in the AL West.
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Ohtani was in the top 10 of the american league in homers rbis era and wins. what else can the guy do to help his team win games?
 
ChrisL68 said:
Ohtani was in the top 10 of the american league in homers rbis era and wins. what else can the guy do to help his team win games?
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most likely get traded to a good team so the Angels can rebuild. it is just not often a player will get MVP on a bad team.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Ohtani may very well be the most talented baseball player in baseball history. But the award isn't for the Most Talented Player, it is the Most Valuable Player. It makes zero sense how a player on a team that finished 15 games below .500 can be considered even close to the most valuable player.

Based on popular interpretation of how these awards should go, the MLB MVP awards should be renamed the Heisman Trophies and the Heisman should be renamed the NCAA MVP.
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Any sort of award like this should just be given to who was the best player that season. I don't really care how good the team around that player was, who performed the best? In pro sports that's even easier to evaluate than in college, because the strength of schedules are much more even.

It doesn't make sense to just give the award to the best player out of everyone on the 4-5 best teams, particularly in a sport like baseball where an individual player contributes to wins much less than a sport like basketball or football (QBs).
 
deacon14 said:
Any sort of award like this should just be given to who was the best player that season. I don't really care how good the team around that player was, who performed the best? In pro sports that's even easier to evaluate than in college, because the strength of schedules are much more even.

It doesn't make sense to just give the award to the best player out of everyone on the 4-5 best teams, particularly in a sport like baseball where an individual player contributes to wins much less than a sport like basketball or football (QBs).
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And for the record, both fWAR and bWAR would say that Judge was better than Ohtani this year, although there's merit to the fact that those stats were not designed to evaluate a player who contributes by both pitching and hitting at a high level.
 
deacon14 said:
Any sort of award like this should just be given to who was the best player that season. I don't really care how good the team around that player was, who performed the best? In pro sports that's even easier to evaluate than in college, because the strength of schedules are much more even.

It doesn't make sense to just give the award to the best player out of everyone on the 4-5 best teams, particularly in a sport like baseball where an individual player contributes to wins much less than a sport like basketball or football (QBs).
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But again, that is not what this award is. This is the Most Valuable Player award. There are plenty of awards, make a Best Season Award if that is what you want to give it for. That is basically what they Cy Young Award is on the pitching side. Hell, call it the Ohtani Award.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
But again, that is not what this award is. This is the Most Valuable Player award. There are plenty of awards, make a Best Season Award if that is what you want to give it for. That is basically what they Cy Young Award is on the pitching side. Hell, call it the Ohtani Award.
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I'm not debating about what the award is called. I'm making a statement about what I think the award should be. And I think most fans would agree with me.
 
there are plenty of examples of players from non playoff teams who have won pro sport mvps.
 
Or even our own Alondes Williams. I guess deacspop would have just given POY to some guy on dook though. Have to factor in all the history right?
 
DeacsPop said:
Please, they play to win the game. Yankee fans are passionate about their Team, yes, it’s in the water. But they win. I rather be that fan then the “I give two shits about winning” Cub fans. And next to Cardinal fans (who own the Cubs) they are the most knowledgeable in baseball. Even The hometown White Sox are more passionate and knowledgeable than Cub fans. And that says a lot.
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Ah, I see its the Baseball's Best Fans conversation, I have a twitter account for you to follow, might find some knowledgable brethren in there - Best Fans St Louis Twitter
 
deacon14 said:
I'm not debating about what the award is called. I'm making a statement about what I think the award should be. And I think most fans would agree with me.
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TBH I would agree that it should be this, and it might be for the CY but hasn't really been for the MVP.
 
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