If Bz was to go

[Haros]

For reference, here is one:

http://www.ogboards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6666&highlight=record

 

[VaDeac]

Big picture, 15 wins is below expectations for this program. As is 23 over two years. We aren't fucking Fordham.

 

[stonz]

If we win 15 games, Bzd has done a great job
If we win 14 games, Bzd has done a good job
If we win 13 games, Bzd has done okay
If we win 12 games, Bzd saves his job but team collapsed on him again and nobody is happy
If we win 11 games, Bzd saves his job for another year

I really hate this mentality. There's more to coaching than wins and losses (yes, seriously, there is).

Honestly I don't really give a shit whether we win 12 games or 13 games this year (for example). I care a lot more about the improvement (or lack thereof) from Carson, Chennault and Green. I think we need two of those three to be good players if we want to have any hope at making the tournament next year, which is a hell of a lot more important than reaching the 13 win plateau.

 

[Sgt Hulka]

Before Bzz got here, a 15 win season was considered really bad. Now it is considered really good. Congrats to the those who have agreed with it.

Whoever said he was the king of lowered expectations should get some kind of a medal.

 

[RJKarl]

Big picture, 15 wins is below expectations for this program. As is 23 over two years. We aren't fucking Fordham.

You can't legitmately expect us to win when we are outmanned most nights.

Do we get the same pass, starting next year? NO, we nee to be over .500 and challenging for a tourney bid,

But expecting this team to win fifteen games is irrational.

 

[IamThunderbolt]

I'd disagree rj, I think 15 wins is a good expectation, I think 20 wins based on last year would be irrational, but 15 is a reasonable expectation for improvement especially looking at our schedule.

 

[RJKarl]

Thnuderbolt, we've won a couple of games we didn't expect to win and lost a couple we shouldn't have. We're within a game of what any logical prediction would have put us.

I can't see ho anyone could four wins from here to the end of the season.

Thunderbolt, remember the original quote I responded to was 15 wins was a "below average job". That's total BS.

 

[TheIshThatSaved WakeForest]

I like the way stonz is looking at it. So, who has gotten better?

Better: CJ, Ty
Same: Fischer, Fields (N/A more appropriate), McKie, Nikita, Tony, Green
Worse: Carson

 

[jaybone]

Before Bzz got here, a 15 win season was considered really bad. Now it is considered really good. Congrats to the those who have agreed with it.

Whoever said he was the king of lowered expectations should get some kind of a medal.

Just plain stupid. Idiotic.

I'll say it one more time as simply as possible. Bzd needs to show improvement every year until he hits about 23 wins and then basically maintain it. then he needs tourney success. End of story

Any idiot screaming for better this year - their opinion holds no value because it is irrational as to be irrelevant. No matter how many times you post it

Bzd's job rests on what his ceiling is. If 20 wins and bubblicious is his ceiling then he will be Sendek'd but faster

 

[RJKarl]

Before Bzz got here, a 15 win season was considered really bad. Now it is considered really good. Congrats to the those who have agreed with it.

Whoever said he was the king of lowered expectations should get some kind of a medal.

Before the happenings of the past eigtheen months, we had much, much more talent than we've had over the past two years. If you don't deal with this fact, nothing else matters

 

[jaybone]

I like the way stonz is looking at it. So, who has gotten better?

Better: CJ, Ty
Same: Fischer, Fields (N/A more appropriate), McKie, Nikita, Tony, Green
Worse: Carson

Um using rationality as an approach it is difficult to not put Nikita and Tony in the improved category and both have also improved through the course of this year

 

[TheIshThatSaved WakeForest]

Nikita I can maybe see an arugment for, but look at Tony's efforts over the last few ACC games. For that to be improvement, you have to compare to Middle School.



The State game was a solid one, but yeah I don't see any tangible improvement over the course of the season.

 

[Sgt Hulka]

Just plain stupid. Idiotic.

I'll say it one more time as simply as possible. Bzd needs to show improvement every year until he hits about 23 wins and then basically maintain it. then he needs tourney success. End of story

Any idiot screaming for better this year - their opinion holds no value because it is irrational as to be irrelevant. No matter how many times you post it

Bzd's job rests on what his ceiling is. If 20 wins and bubblicious is his ceiling then he will be Sendek'd but faster

Thanks for talking down to me so I can get it. How long does he have to get to 23 wins? What in his history makes you think that he will ever reach that? With better talent he can not beat Stetson or Wofford. much like Dino, I think his Ceiling is what his talent dictates.

 

[thedeacfan]

I dontr' believe at all that Wellman had [Redacted] on the rader for multiple years. It doesn't pass the sniff test.

Nothing that RW has done or said about our basketball program for the last year and 10 months will pass that "sniff" test.

Jeff was the name prior to the firing. I'll give more details once Jeff is gone or once Wellman is gone.

I gotta hear this. If there is anything I can do to hasten one or both of your conditions...

And to the people who think a firing after 2 years would steer off other candidates; I think that's absurd. With any 'good job' comes standards of performance.

I doubt there's any coach in America (that we'd want, anyway) who wouldn't objectively look at the results of the past two years and understand that they do not align with what should be accepted at Wake Forest University.

Agreed!

Our previous coach going 61-31 over 3 seasons adds credibility to firing a coach that is currently 19-36 in the following two seasons, IMO.

Agreed!

Before the happenings of the past eigtheen months, we had much, much more talent than we've had over the past two years. If you don't deal with this fact, nothing else matters

Agreed! Before Buzz arrived we had some of the nations top recruits coming. But once they get here and experience Buzz's "leadership", they "fail" and are gone. Yes we did have "much, much more talent"... until Buzz... :rulz:

 

[jaybone]

Thanks for talking down to me so I can get it. How long does he have to get to 23 wins? What in his history makes you think that he will ever reach that? With better talent he can not beat Stetson or Wofford. much like Dino, I think his Ceiling is what his talent dictates.

You are welcome. Dent matter I think. It is what Ron thinks. He gets 5 years if there is improvement each year

 

[TexasDeac10]

I like the way stonz is looking at it. So, who has gotten better?

Better: CJ, Ty
Same: Fischer, Fields (N/A more appropriate), McKie, Nikita, Tony, Green
Worse: Carson

I'd say Nikita and Fischer have shown improvement over the course of the season. Green too, but he was starting at such a low point that his improvement is imperceptible.

I don't agree with others that Tony has improved. His grasp on the PG position is still pretty awful.

 

[buckets]

I think Fischer has regressed, but I am willing to accept that he has hit a freshman wall.


And 5 years?!?! In year 5 maybe we will celebrate a10-seed in the tournament

 

[RJKarl]

Nikita I can maybe see an arugment for, but look at Tony's efforts over the last few ACC games. For that to be improvement, you have to compare to Middle School.


The State game was a solid one, but yeah I don't see any tangible improvement over the course of the season.

First of all the State game was among the last few. Next, only his bad games to you and most others here.

Let's look at some stas last year versus this year:

Last year we averaged about 16 tos/game. This year about 13. But our PG gets no credit for that here.

Last year we had 40% more TOs than assists. This year it's about 10%. Again the biggest difference is a healthy PG who gets no credit.

Tony is the only starter who have more assists than TOs. He has the highest a/to ratio of those who play every game.

He leads the team in steals and plays the best oppostion guard on Defense.

But to this board all is irrelevant. Each mistake is like he has fucked your little sister.

The reality is he is our best PG. He is a good backup PG in the ACC.

He is not nearly the awful player so many here say he is.

 

[RJKarl]

"I don't understand why you love this kid so much. For his career, he shoots under 25% from behind the arc, under 60% from the free throw line and has terrible court vision. His 'go-to' move is to put his head down and try to steam roll the nearest defender...more often than not, resulting in a charge. He averages 3 assists a game. It isn't exactly like he's dropping dimes left and right"

This is a perfectn example of this board.

In the post you quote I state:

"The reality is he is our best PG. He is a good backup PG in the ACC.

He is not nearly the awful player so many here say he is."

That's not "loving him". It's not saying he's god.

On this board if you don't hate Tony and don't date [Redacted] then to you and many others, one must love them.

There's another option -seeing them for who they are.

At this point we have no other option than Tony as our PG. He's not Kyrie Irving, but he's the best we have.

If any other PG in Wake helped cut out TOS by 20%, he'd be getting postive posts.

If another PG helped drop out defensive numbers by about 7ppg, he'd be given credit.

If any other PG in our histroy was the only starter with a positive A/TO ratio, people wouldn't be callnig him a TO machine.

Lepore, what I don't understand is the vitriolic hatred of a kid who playnig hard every minute he's on the court and has helped us improve from last yeart to this.

I'll bold this an d put in a difernt colr. Not that it will make a difference:

I DO NOT THINK TONY IS A STAR. HE IS A BACKUP PG IN THE ACC. HIS PLAY THIS YEAR HAS HELPED US IMROVE OVER LAST YEAR. NO HE'S NOT A STAR BUT HE DOES HELP US.

 

[SteveLeporefor3]

RJ, I don't hate him. I don't think I've ever said I hated him. I just don't agree with your assessment of his play. I think he consistently makes poor decisions with the ball and it makes it very frustrating to watch him play.

By the way, I deleted the post you are responding to because my computer was being uncooperative and I thought it posted twice.